GIRLS talk (the Lena Dunham thread)

it feels too perfectly above actual language

His GIRLS Friday

Episode 5 is on demand apparently. Watching now

pessimistically feeling like this show has no real idea what it's doing so far this season. feels like a first draft with stock conflicts and half-hearted Larry Davidisms.

― ryan, Thursday, January 30, 2014 2:00 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark

Just had a #GIRLSidea - they should borrow a page from the X-Files and introduce a Monster of the Week concept that would allow the writers to rest during that week & generate cool and good multi-episode story arcs

ep.5 was kinda like that?

re: language: Shosh has a few good one-liners, but the overall tone of the dialogue in this episode (or at least Hannah, Adam, and Caroline's contributions to it) could only be described as 'hysterical'

... and maybe 'exhausting'

if you accept 'shouty' that would also work

she's not on anyone's side, she's the doctor philllllllllllllll

the eye roll at 'joan didion' was very good

episode 5 was my fave so far this season. the meeting with the editor and her assistant was hilarious as was hannah's narcissism at the funeral. even when she is trying to cover for herself: "no, i never thought he was gay. i thought he wanted to sleep with me actually."

i don't hate marnie at all either. she is just finding her way and doesn't know enough not to be self-centered. the show seems to take it as a rule that adolescence lasts until age 30 or something and none of these characters can reasonably be held responsible for their actions. i mean, hannah on the phone with her father -- just totally shit-talking her lawyer cousin because he doesn't work on glamorous cases -- is just being a teenager. she is an idiot but in a way that mostly hurts herself: small-minded, judgmental, resentful of the world's refusal to indulge their every desire... basically these characters are like holden caulfield, but a decade older.

i don't have any sort of insights about prolonged adolescence and am not even sure if it's a real phenomenon, although it's clear that many people do think it's real. the creators of GIRLS seem to think it's real, and to nudge the audience in the direction of indulging these characters as they make a lot of painful mistakes and don't learn from them right away. my fear is that the show is unwittingly playing into the hands of reactionaries who hear about things like the student debt crisis and think it's about a lot of spoiled kids getting impractical degrees and not thinking about their futures. idk. are twenty-five year olds less mature today than they were in previous generations? i am inclined to answer no. but maybe the existence of a show like girls indicates that our popular culture is, in general, more willing to show compassion for people who are stupid and selfish and short-sighted. this would be a good thing ftr.

i said mean things abt marnie upthread i think, during season 1, but i don't hate her at all anymore either. i eyerolled a lil at ray saying explicitly that her (occluded) good nature is "what makes [her] a sympathetic character"--also at where this scene inevitably went--but i liked a lot marnie collapsing in despair onto the table after her sarcastic thankyou; she made just the right noise. i also liked the hannah/adam/caroline stuff, thought it was well-written/staged/acted in itself even if its relationship to the show as a whole is a lil aimless. in general i think i watch this show for scenes.

are twenty-five year olds less mature today than they were in previous generations? i am inclined to answer no.

I'm inclined to answer yes.

maybe in the past more people were thrown into situations they weren't ready for, like parenthood and home ownership and war. or maybe adolescence is just a thing that continues until you no longer have the luxury of it anymore, and this can happen at any age.

been ages since i read catcher but i don't remember holden being quite as detached from others as hannah tho. dumham/the writers are getting p harsh w this character; throwing some cancer keywords into her dad's phone call so she could ignore them almost felt cheap.

lol dumham. dunham.

well, i brought up catcher because holden is notable for his lack of self-insight, which is part of the reason he is such a convincing symbol of adolescence. hannah seems similar. you get a sense that from her perspective her life looks very different than it does to the audience.

maybe in the past more people were thrown into situations they weren't ready for, like parenthood and home ownership and war. or maybe adolescence is just a thing that continues until you no longer have the luxury of it anymore, and this can happen at any age.

― tɹi.ʃɪp (Treeship), Friday, January 31, 2014 1:51 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think a lot of people would say that prior generations developed maturity younger because they were in those situations at a younger age. It's postponing those things that postpones maturity, not the other way around.

Hurting otm

if you go back far enough (ie a little over a century) adolescence didn't even really exist. there was childhood (which was often remarkably short) and then adulthood, with no in-between.

Totally saw the Caroline "I made it up" reveal coming

Was hoping that Adam would have gone "Hey wait /I/ had a cousin named Margaret" at the end for the double twist

haha yeah same

are twenty-five year olds less mature today than they were in previous generations? i am inclined to answer no.

Answering 'yes' to this is of course a stock position that people throughout recorded history have loved to hold

Personally, I think the immaturity diagnosed in today's 25-year-olds might have a lot to do with the difficulty they have in getting a job, and the insecurity of any job they do get, i.e. the thing we might call immaturity is not an inherent trait but a logical development given the world in which they exist

If your lifeworld means you're a bank-clerk for life, or on the factory production line for life, putting up and shutting up is probably what you're going to do as a result. Putting up and shutting up is for many people sufficient to count as maturity

^ Of course, this is all actually aimed at the person I just got off the phone to, but it seems relevant here too.

i equate maturity to self-sufficiency (emotional/financial/spiritual/what have you) and though it seems obvious it may be worth pointing out that modern western post-industrial societies don't prize self-sufficiency so yeah it seems fair to say that a group of modern brooklyn twenty somethings is likely to be less mature by that measure than their grandparents were at that age, whether it's a stock position or not

nobody in history was ever mature

maturity is just this thing older people made up to pretend they have their shit together so their kids will listen to them

hahaha otm

Just remembered I meant to comment on this:

Some odd moments where continuity was sacrificed for throw-away gags in this. Like Shoshanna's rocking chair taking up most of the room on the back seat, I was wondering where Jessa was going to sit coming back. Lo and behold, the rocking chair was nowhere to be seen on the return journey. Unless I missed something?

The scene before they pull up at the motel has Hannah in the back seat, and the mystical powers of being in the back seat make her automatically act more infantilised than when she was sitting in the front. She then gets her head stuck between the bars of the seat. The next time we see her is in the diner, sans chair. They obviously have to dismantle it to get her free, which is why we don't see it again.

Is it OK to identify with Adam in this show? In that you don't really want to hang out with any of them, but you end up drawn into their circle and having a fun time despite yourself? I really didn't care for S2 much at all, except maybe for the episodes at Jessa's, and I don't like the people - whiny, self-obsessed, First World Problems trustafarians to a one - but I'm glad I stuck with it because S3 has been hilarious. The funniest bit for me was probably Marnie still going through with the song at the party despite it being clearly flagged to her that it was an atrocious idea by Hannah herself. Between this and the video she reminds me of a friend of the ex, who I used to characterise as "Don't look at me, why is everybody looking at me (LOOK AT ME PLEASE)".

it feels too perfectly above actual language

hmmm, this used to be called "comedy," but it's been so acarce in the culture the last 20 years I understand if it's unfamiliar.

*scarce, dammit

i would prefer not to identify with adam, personally

i find the show is increasingly shown from his perspective, like when he was dreading hannah's friends coming over and then they came over and all the conversations were so awful

also ep3 kind of like making the point that he's the only one with a conscience

eh not really. Ray and his sister and pretty much everyone else were incredulous at Hannah's callousness.

yeah the more the show appears to make him "the voice of reason" the more uncomfortable it makes me

er I meant Adam's sister

max u just don't like him cause he doesn't like gawker

ray is such an ilxor-dude i think, he should be the voice of reason(able opinions about sitcoms)

lol

hes kind of a psycho is all. plus i dont like the idea of a show called "girls" thats (supposed to be?) a semi-feminist real-life thing where the creepy aggressive boyfriend is the reasonable guy

ya i agree. also why do they have a spare room in their apt?

it's a two bedroom

So every show created and written by women has to be a feminist thing--such a fucking lame narrow view of the world

Maybe she's trying to write an interesting show and not make it be the feminist answer to anything

maybe you were trying to write an interesting post and not make it the troll answer to anything

good one, asshat

more femiNAZI garbage from ilxor.com. when will you cover mens rights?

I just watched the first 4 eps and now I feel bad that Adam is really the only character that doesn't annoy the hell out of me in some way.

But not really. They're all just so far gone and obnoxious to varying degrees but I find him (and Ray) the least obnoxious and easiest to identify with. That said, I can't stop watching.

u watching the new seaz or just staring the series now?