Rolling 2004 Metal Thread

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I've heard all kinds of good things about Circle Takes the Square! But the name seems so deplorably emo. The guys from Radiation 4 (who I hope make a new album this year) were big on that and on Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, who I haven't heard.

msp if you dig "The Beautiful Sounds of Lickgoldensky" just wait 'til you hear their next stuff...holy God is it focused

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 24 April 2004 15:35 (twenty years ago) link

anyone got any idea what the new lickgoldensky is called and when it's out?

myke boomnoise (myke boomnoise), Saturday, 24 April 2004 16:27 (twenty years ago) link

it is called lickgoldensky and it's out in may 24th. and i've just heard it and it is terrorlicious!

myke boomnoise (myke boomnoise), Sunday, 25 April 2004 00:08 (twenty years ago) link

circle takes the square has emocore elements to it so if early 90s redux is a scary concept, i might avoid it or borrow it from someone first.

sleepytime gorilla museum is really good. sort of us maple meets mr bungle/faith no more. heavy, but quirky. very knowledgeable and/or talented musicians are behind it. (the band seems made up of avant musicians from the bay area... mills college has connections i know. aka, where fred frith is a professor.)

m.

msp, Sunday, 25 April 2004 16:35 (twenty years ago) link

Circle Takes The Square thirded or fourthed or whatever. I'm looking forward to seeing 'em in June.

GOATSNAKE are coming back, which is excellent to know.

DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Monday, 26 April 2004 08:54 (twenty years ago) link

The big push behind Satyricon annoys me. They suck. However, I was listening to the new Machine Head again this weekend, and I stand by my earlier recommendation. It's great. So is the new Kataklysm album.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Monday, 26 April 2004 12:32 (twenty years ago) link

I like that Satyricon album; they have a really good drummer (with Visa problems, apparently) and it reminds me of Celtic Frost, especaily the long final track "black lava." And I just relistened to that double-disc katatonia reissue again (recorded circa 1995 and 1996, apparently) last night, and i'll be damned if i can figure out why anybody would call it "unlistenable." it's quite beautiful, just as i thought, though i do prefer the songs where the guy sings to the songs where he grumbles. (even THOSE have nice melodies, though!)

chuck, Monday, 26 April 2004 16:18 (twenty years ago) link

I also like the After Forever EP (or 24-minute/6-song mini album or whatever), though if it was longer I might get tired of it. (I even like their Iron Maiden cover, which if not a first, is definitely close to one.) Couldn't make it through the whole DVD disc, though...

chuck, Monday, 26 April 2004 16:20 (twenty years ago) link

I even like their Iron
Maiden cover, which if not a first, is definitely close to one.

Whoa. Well, I'm intrigued now -- what does the cover get right that the original might get wrong?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 26 April 2004 16:23 (twenty years ago) link

A halfway decent singer! (in Gathering/Lacuna Coil/Evanescence-if-you-insist mode, to be exact. She could afford to be a little less Kate Bushlike though, maybe.)

chuck, Monday, 26 April 2004 16:43 (twenty years ago) link

As for Lickgoldensky, their record last year was fine (again, partly because it was so SHORT), but I'm kinda curious if people think they're doing something that...um...Meshuggah, Zao, Dillinger Escape Plan, Prong, Beyond Posession, Die Kreuzen (first album), Meat Puppets (first album), Void, and lots of other miniaturist math majors haven't done before. What, exactly, am i missing here?

chuck, Monday, 26 April 2004 16:55 (twenty years ago) link

A halfway decent singer!

Heh. *checks which track* "The Evil That Men Do," I have to say that's not a Maiden track that sticks with me much, so maybe the cover will make it more memorable.

What, exactly, am i missing here?

It's a younger band?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 26 April 2004 16:57 (twenty years ago) link

I'm with you on Lickgoldensky, Chuck. I'm a little burned out on mathcore stuff now, in general. Though I still like Dysrhythmia, mostly because they don't have a singer, and they sound like 1973 King Crimson playing instrumental covers of songs off I Against I instead of just one more Dillinger knockoff.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Monday, 26 April 2004 17:05 (twenty years ago) link

Or maybe *1983* King Crimson, given those dorkus proto-Primus basslines. (I like Dysrhythmia too, but last night my girlfriend and I were watching that new live Relapse DVD comp, and she's scoffing at Dysrhytmia, saying, "I hate these bands that just memorize their practice jams instead of actually writing songs. Especially bands like this who use every idea they have in every song. It's like, once you've heard one song by them, why listen to any other ones?" And I sort of sheepishly agreed, I guess. The second song started with a good riff, but they quickly abandoned it. And the heaviness and rhythm of it sort of managed a certain Last Exit/Blood Ulmer harmelodicness, which is refreshing in the ugly-metal-world context maybe. And at least they were SMART enough to not have a singer, because you KNOW, with a band like that, if they did have a singer he would TOTALLY suck.) We agreed that the one band with a girl singer-guitarist on there, called 27, were okay when they'd go into blues playing, but mostly it's like they were trying to do beatnik coffeehouse jazz or something. My girlfriend though Cephallic Carnage were ridiculous, but she loved Neurosis (who she'd never heard before, but who she said reminded her of the Unsane, who I've barely ever listened to much.) Most of the DVD is still unwatched, though.

chuck, Monday, 26 April 2004 17:41 (twenty years ago) link

What, exactly, am i missing here?

Except for the Meat Puppets on your list I really don't hear LGS as belonging in that group: Neurosis, Meshuggah, DEP, Prong et al. are all really math-y, you can practically hear 'em goin' "ok we've done that riff thirteen times, now switch to the 5/4 section." LGS are just way more interested in messing around with sound (esp. than Neurosis who unless I misremeber recorded their last one at Electrical = they are not at all interested in messing around with sound-as-such), mastering, production - and also image, which maybe shouldn't be an issue & maybe should. There's a big-burly-guy aspect of Neurosis/Meshuggah/the End/all-Primsesque-metalcore-stuff that's totally absent from LGS, who are more like a pop Melt-Banana (esp. on the new one which has some really fucked up pop aspects to it).

I dunno, I am a big LGS evangelist, they seem to actually rock where Converge, Isis, etc. etc. etc. just sorta lurched.

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 26 April 2004 17:51 (twenty years ago) link

I haven't made it through that Relapse DVD, either, btw

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 26 April 2004 17:52 (twenty years ago) link

Neurosis and Isis absolutely fool around all the time with SOUND, John (letting instruments drop out for a long time so you get lots of gorgeous space within the heavy dense noise, a la psychedelia and dub), though whether that counts as "sound-as-such" I have no idea since I don't know anything about recording studios. {Here's Frank Kogan on Isis: "Isis, meanwhile, deserve praise for being the first metal band to come out and admit they're the aural equivalent of calendar art. (Or at least that's how I interpret their album title *Oceanic.) They have guitar leads and a singer who does the usual death-metal rasping, but the general movement of the (glacially slow) guitar notes is to take us to gorgeously dark chords that loom massively against the night sky; and these chords are the music's story. Pleasantly engulfing, but you have to like oceans."} I don't hear any of that on the Lickgoldensky record from last year (the one with flowers on the cover); they basically struck me as yet another heavy hardcore band with attention deficit disorder; is their other music (or are there live shows) much different than the record with the flowers on the cover? The way John talks about them reminds me of this Dutch band called Lul (*Inside Little Oral Annie* album) who I fell for briefly in the late '80s, but maybe I'm misunderstanding. Also have never seen a photo of the band, for whatever that's worth. I guess if they don't have muscles that might be a nice thing. (But did Zao or Die Kruezen or Void have muscles?? Not that I remember.)

chuck, Monday, 26 April 2004 18:16 (twenty years ago) link

Didn't hear Lickgoldesky as "rocking", either, but then I almost never hear hardcore bands as rocking, unless they're called the Angry Samoans. (Same with metal bands, lately; lots of even the best ones these days just engulf you like a big beautiful mudslide of frozen molasses from the land of ice and snow.) (If I want to rock, I'll listen to Montgomery Gentry. Or Lil Jon and the East Side Boyz.)

chuck, Monday, 26 April 2004 18:24 (twenty years ago) link

I can't quite make the connection between Neurosis and Unsane (other than the fact that I saw them on the same bill, with Eyehategod, at Irving Plaza about a decade ago, maybe more). And Isis live is a completely different thing from Isis in the studio; the time I saw them (with Botch), their set featured a didgeridoo/theremin duet.

I haven't made it through the whole Relapse DVD, either, but that's because I don't care enough about Bongzilla or Alabama Thunderpussy (or Dillinger Escape Plan or Today Is The Day) to watch their performances. High On Fire's section is great, as is Neurosis's, and I liked Burnt By The Sun (and, as I mentioned, Dysrhythmia). Pig Destroyer disappointed me (because I heard they finished early, and Agoraphobic Nosebleed finished out the set-time with their so-far-only-ever live appearance, and it wasn't included on the DVD).

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Monday, 26 April 2004 18:37 (twenty years ago) link

(Or the Gore Gore Girls. Or old Slade albums. Or something.)

xpost (I meant what else I'd put on if I wanted to be rocked...)

chuck, Monday, 26 April 2004 18:38 (twenty years ago) link

'nother point-of-reference for the new LGS is Gogogoairheart, though whether that's good or bad I leave up to you - lots of P.i.L.-type rock-cum-dub comparisons, anyhow 'cept louder. And I do think it's signifigant that their albums are short: new one's also 30 minutes - most metalcore bands seem to think more-is-better, but I take LGS (and the singer's previous band, Fucked Up) to mean something by keeping things short-n-sweet. In re: Neurosis...agree-to-disagree I guess; I thought their last one was really monochromatic - sure, instruments drop out & pedals get used, but it doesn't sound like anybody involved was very interested in playing around with the noises they'd made once they'd been recorded, which is what I mean.

Isis more interesting, you're right, I shouldn't tar them with the same brush.

x-post Burnt By the Sun is pretty good, yeah

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 26 April 2004 18:44 (twenty years ago) link

I do like Gogogo Airheart (and PiL, obviously); I'll try to hear Lickgoldensky in that light next time, I promise. (Though if they sound like that, why aren't they on GSL Records with all the other dub-noise artpunks like Kill Me Tomorrow and the Chromatics? Hmm...) The Burnt By The Sun album last year was quite listenable, I thought.

chuck, Monday, 26 April 2004 18:52 (twenty years ago) link

"but then I almost never hear hardcore bands as rocking"

what are they doing then?

the lgs with the flower on the cover wasn't mind-blowing or anything. not anything that tremendously broke molds... but i thought as far as songwriting goes it was better than some other stuff that i've heard recently. less one trick pony. more angular. more industrial by way of psychedelic. (see the last track that's nearly as long as half the incredibly short album.)

or maybe it was just new. who knows?
m.

msp, Monday, 26 April 2004 19:12 (twenty years ago) link

>"but then I almost never hear hardcore bands as rocking"
what are they doing then?<

Jumping up and down in place and yelling really loud, mostly. With their hands in their pockets. And a javelin up their ass. (And sometimes laying on the floor and beating their hands on the lineoleum floor 'cause Mom won't give them any more Pepsi.)

chuck, Monday, 26 April 2004 19:17 (twenty years ago) link

ahhh... now i see where you're coming from. rocking involves that rocker stance...
m.

msp, Monday, 26 April 2004 19:21 (twenty years ago) link

or buffalo stance. or something. not to mention a rhythm section.

chuck, Monday, 26 April 2004 19:24 (twenty years ago) link

Can someone please explain to me what I'm missing about Pelican? Someone described it to me as kick-ass metal without an annoying singer (a common problem for me and much of today's metal). So I bought it. And was hugely disappointed. It's like an ambient dirge. Sheesh. It's not like I need a bunch of riffs, a la Fucking Champs, but I dunno. What am I missing here?

Mr Deeds (Mr Deeds), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 03:11 (twenty years ago) link

Possibly the first four-tracker, for a start, assuming you bought 'Australasia'

DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 08:32 (twenty years ago) link

This thread is useful to me. I thank you all.

the music mole (colin s barrow), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 09:06 (twenty years ago) link

Australasia is a huge leap forward from the debut, so if you didn't like it, skip the EP and go find some Blind Idiot God discs instead.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 10:05 (twenty years ago) link

Ah - opposing opinions. The rawness of the first one did a lot more for me than 'Australasia', which isn't to say I don't like that one. There again "ambient dirge" sounds like a come-on to me, so hey

DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 10:15 (twenty years ago) link

If you go to ideologic.org between now and May 9, you can download the Sunn O))) Grimmrobe Demos EP.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 13:34 (twenty years ago) link

Yeah, I'm an ambient dirge fan, too (as long as the ambient dirges are heavy and spacey and beautiful enough), and I like both Pelican records. I used to like Blind Idiot God, too; even wrote about them in an SST roundup in the Voice a million years ago. And I also just remembered that I kinda like those new albums by Wolf and Tesla.

Anyway, here's what Dave Queen wrote about Pelican; I (obviously?) like where he says instro-stoner metal reminds him of dub:

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0402/queen.php

chuck, Wednesday, 28 April 2004 14:20 (twenty years ago) link

This Rattlin' Bones record I'm listening to now sounds really cool, too, but I totally have no idea who they are or whether anybody but me would think they have anything to do with metal per se'.

chuck, Wednesday, 28 April 2004 14:26 (twenty years ago) link

New Sunn0))) at the end of June, 'White 2', as well. Yay

DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 14:30 (twenty years ago) link

Yes, it IS "Australasia" that I'm talking about. I guess I'll give it another spin or two, then give up if I'm still not enamored.
I sampled the new Satyricon while in the shower this morning. No thanks. But I'm on a cheesy Children of Bodom bender right now, anyway. (I love how that keyboad player unleashes light-speed runs with his right hand while swilling a brown-bag beer with his left. Sometimes they're like a perfect cartoon version of Dream Theater.)

Mr Deeds (Mr Deeds), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 16:32 (twenty years ago) link

I love Children of Bodom. And the keyboards are definitely the best thing about them...they've got that early-80s video-game-gone-berzerk sound.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 16:34 (twenty years ago) link

I can't quite make the connection between Neurosis and Unsane (other than the fact that I saw them on the same bill, with Eyehategod, at Irving Plaza about a decade ago, maybe more).

A little less, actually, but I'm still pissed off about it. In the end, Eyehategod were incredible, and Unsane royally royally sucked.

Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 17:12 (twenty years ago) link

The thing that I'll never forget about Eyehategod live was that Michael Williams always looked like he was just on the brink of falling over, and the other guys always looked like if he did, they'd leave him lying there and keep playing.

Also, I hung out with Jimmy Bower one night at CBGBs (Eyehategod and Soilent Green and BuzzOv'en and some other bands were playing, but EHG had one of their roadies on vocals because Williams was in jail or something), and he was wearing the greatest hat I've ever seen. It was a black baseball cap with a pentagram (w/goat's head) on the front, and below the pentagram it said "The New South." I've coveted that hat since that night.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 17:22 (twenty years ago) link

Not one but two people defending the Children of Bottom! when the BM googlers get here you're gonna get called fags extra-loud

xpost EHG live gave off the most evil bad-feeling something-shitty's-gonna-happen-any-minute-now vibe of any band I've ever seen except for Whitehouse - magnificent, and some of the best audience-baiting ever

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 17:24 (twenty years ago) link

Shit, I've defended Children of Bodom in print a couple of times. (Can't get the link to my Voice album review right now.)

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 17:33 (twenty years ago) link

best audience-baiting ever

...and their songs flow together in the mire like DJ sets. I wasn't too impressed, though, the very first time I saw them, in New Orleans in '94. We kept going across the street to watch New Birth Brass Band, the little brothers of Rebirth. Awesome. Came back between sets, and horror writer Nancy Collins was onstage punching Mike in the head, while the rest of the band called her a bitch. Par for the course. When EHG grew up musically, they were greatness.

...but the bad vibes permeate New Orleans. Soilent Green bassist Scott Williams was just murdered Monday night.

I've defended Children of Bodom

It's not so bad, for a band named after a cafe press. I'd recommend the Norther album Death Unlimited, on Spinefarm, to anyone enamored of this melodic death-thresh sound.

Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 18:28 (twenty years ago) link

Just went and downloaded about a dozen EHG MP3s. Exactly what I needed this afternoon.

This is the first I've heard about Williams. That's too bad. I never liked the band much, but still.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 18:33 (twenty years ago) link

Excellent article, Phil. I'm definitely gaining a huge appreciation for the Bodom gang.
I attended an alt-weekly panel at SXSW this year that had the Cleveland Scene music editor on it. He was the only panelist with a journalism degree, which cost him points with the other hipster editors up there. It cracked me up. (I shouldn't have been in that room, anyway. Had I been outed as a dailies guy, I could have been lynched.)
So ... will I get spanked here for saying that I dig the new Killswitch Engage album, different singer and all?

Mr Deeds (Mr Deeds), Thursday, 29 April 2004 01:07 (twenty years ago) link

Not one but two people defending the Children of Bottom! when the BM googlers get here you're gonna get called fags extra-loud.
Cool! I already get hammered on local message boards by kids who hate my reviews. I went to a Red Chord/Six Feet Under show two weeks ago wearing a Darkness shirt just to antagonize the mouthguard-wearing karate punks in the pit.

Mr Deeds (Mr Deeds), Thursday, 29 April 2004 01:11 (twenty years ago) link

I only saw EHG about two years ago. It was pretty cool but there wasn't much stench of malevolent evil or nothing, so I guess it was an off night. It did look like Williams had thrown up down his shirt though

DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 29 April 2004 08:05 (twenty years ago) link

Anyone know when the lickgoldensky is out in stores and is there a tracklisting available?

Ryan J, Thursday, 29 April 2004 12:15 (twenty years ago) link

May 24 and possibly on www.level-plane.com in a week or summat

DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 29 April 2004 12:46 (twenty years ago) link

>>www.theajnaoffensive.com has it - i just got my copy (+abigail +s.o.l.) from them. i think they're also doing US distro for drakkar these days. <<

They're unofficial reprints. Mutilation doesn't do more than a couple hundred copies and refuses to do official repressings.

Alan Conceicao, Thursday, 29 April 2004 13:23 (twenty years ago) link

I've decided I like both the Hiss album and Icarus Line album. And oh yeah, also the Sex Slaves' EP. All of which have more to do with pop people's late '80s definition of metal than metal people's early '00s definition of metal, so caveat emptor. But there is more to life than ugly horror kitsch, as we all know.

chuck, Thursday, 29 April 2004 15:50 (twenty years ago) link

Just saw the rockist bubblegum thread. To answer your question, yep, I bought the Hollywood Stars LP, motivated by -- I think -- lickspittle hype by Creem. It was on Arista, which should tell you much re hard rock quality, and it was poor. One really good song, "All the Kids On the Street" and then zip. I expected something like The Sidewinders or, at worst, Pezband. As far as it having something to do with Kim Fowley, I'd rate it parallel to The Orchids in quality. I take that back. The Orchids were unlistenable, not because they were awful, but because they were exactly nothing. If the Mac music program Garageband had existed back then, it would
have made The Orchids.

I think all these bands would have done better had they cut the cheese and reliance on the say-so of Hollywood types and tried bribing people into letting them onto Outlaws and Skynyrd tours. Artful Dodger went that way and they wound up with a couple of good records and a reputation.

What's most entertaining is to see how American and mechanical the treatment of a band like Busted is. It's obvious the label employees believe in pop music, or hard rock, or whatever, as an equation to be solved simply by arranging the right inputs and outputs and balancing them.

It's nasty and a joy to watch other people come a cropper by it. The Busted guys can sit there and watch as their careers are taken in thirty seconds, analyzed according to theoretical demographic, and ground into packets of Lik-M-Aid. (Which, by the way, comes with the Mr. Wonka?! CD-Rs.) In their old age they will still be able to precisely map when they became fucked. Yep, it was when they said nothing as the chick at the big table scheduled 'em for that TV show where Cocoa Marsh is dumped on heads.

Well, things could be worse. You could always be in a Kiss, Judas Priest or Queen tribute band, which is what I learned from the absolutely awful documentary, "Tribute." Watching "Tribute" was right up there with going to the eye doctor to have a chelazion in your bottom eyelid cauterized. It was too much about sadism/masochism rationalized as a way to earn some money off rock and roll. You get to be Kiss without any of the benefits or, actually, Wicked Lester.
You get to put on faux Kiss duds (or faux Judas priest) and make-up
(how good it looks dependent on your limited budget,) play the Kiss songs you're sick of in small dives for really drunk men. If there are any women involved, it's only one or two with grey tattoos and all their teeth knocked out from years of amphetamines abuse. Finally, you "get lucky" in the sense that someone with a video camera puts you onscreen on cable, like that series about whores at some street corner in one of the outer boroughs of NYC.

Get slowly driven mad until you quit, have a nervous breakdown that results in a transformation into a religious zealot.

George Smith, Sunday, 21 November 2004 20:35 (nineteen years ago) link

And in thread-related info, this just in for those who think extreme metal just isn't canned enough yet:

Precision Sound Releases "Demonic - Voices from Hell" Sample Collection

From the darkest areas of human vocal art comes a new 158-file, 24-bit Mono WAV format collection of "Growls", "Screams" and "Words". All WAV files has also been mapped for HALion & Kontakt for easy access if you working with these samplers.

Demonic - Voices from hell offers unprocessed performances from professional singers in the darker heavy metal genres. The collection contains staccato and long growls, hi and lo in different "tonal colors" and lengths, screams and demonic words.

For more information, visit their web site at

http://www.precisionsound.net

George Smith, Sunday, 21 November 2004 21:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Holy shit! I'monna go listen to Arthur Russell instead (oh yeah was *gonna* mention the folk who did sucessfully cross over from teeny to officially recognized Hard Rock, like Shaun and David Cassidy tried to. Peter Frampton from the Herd, at least kind of, like when he was in Humble Pie with Steve Marriott from Small Faces, and of course the Faces did okay. And my own fave rave, from the Amen Corner, Andy Fairweather Low. Eventually disappeared into Eric Clapton's band, which is like being that second guitarist in Mountain, except I'd rather hear more Mountain) (should I? Don't remember anything but "MS. Queen", or West, Bruce & Laing either)

don, Monday, 22 November 2004 08:12 (nineteen years ago) link


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