Throwing Muses: C-o-D

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This thread pops up right as we got the "Reunion Record" in the post, along with the new solo acoustic thing which will be released on the same day. I like the reunion record, good to hear Kristin and Tanya doing those crazy harmonies again. I'm not sold on the acoustic stuff, though. More thoughts later when I've listened to the record more...

kate, Saturday, 1 February 2003 15:02 (twenty-one years ago) link

all i've heard is the "univerity" album; and i liked it, but not nearly as much as the rest of you folks seem to like the older releases (not a single full-on dud vote in the thread). am i just familiar with their dud album? should i start checking out the older material immediately?

dyson (dyson), Saturday, 1 February 2003 18:44 (twenty-one years ago) link

Classic. They're not without moments that feel redundant (if not totally shticky if you don't know the "legend"), but the guitar-bass-drums save the day when Kristin's vocals become too strident.

I definitely wouldn't say that you're only familiar with the "dud album", Dyson. From what I've heard of her discography it sounds like Hersh started with her most apocalyptic (or grating, depending on your tastes) work and then gradually mellowed, while remaining off-kilter and "in touch with her emotions". I'd certainly give the older stuff a try, but it's pretty up in the air what you'll prefer. I'm not sure myself, but my girlfriend would vote for "The Real Ramona" as her fave.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 1 February 2003 18:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

Random lines written by Hersh randomly pop into my head almost as frequently as ones written by Howard Devoto. "I'm so glad you could come, now breathe under water"; "I throw your head across the ice"; "I beg your skin, you buy a whore," etc.

Andy K (Andy K), Saturday, 1 February 2003 19:12 (twenty-one years ago) link

Hm, those are pretty good.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 1 February 2003 22:14 (twenty-one years ago) link

I was absolutely obsessed with Throwing Muses for the second half of the '80s. I'm looking forward to hearing Kristin and Tanya together again...

mike a (mike a), Sunday, 2 February 2003 06:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'll stand by what I said 18 months ago - _Limbo_ is faboo. Yeah, _University_ is a bit duddish, but then I'm singing that song Andy quoted up there to myself ("I'll climb you as I grow older / By 50 I'll ride on your shoulder"), and there are plenty of non-dud moves ("The Teller" comes to mind). But _Limbo_ is _University_ done up right, and _In a Doghouse_ (collecting the 1st Muses album w/ their demo tape) is even better (albeit different & less user-friendly, which is A-OK), so going there next might be best.

Would someone in the recording industry PLEASE compile all those odd EP / b-side / single tracks onto one accesible compact disc type object? Yo, Ivo! (This is especially urgent & key as I've found a SLSKer w/ the entire TM disco available for D/L - including the new album! - BUT a) they've 600+ people in their queue and b) their D/L speed is 0.8!)

David R. (popshots75`), Sunday, 2 February 2003 17:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

Another big-up for Limbo, which is immensely satisfying all the way through (and climaxes with the unlisted track "white bikini sand") but never reaches the dizzy heights of classic early stuff. Criminally overlooked.

Aaron A., Sunday, 2 February 2003 17:59 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah, _University_ is a bit duddish

David R. is BONKERS.

Andy K (Andy K), Sunday, 2 February 2003 18:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

TM (Throwing Muses) = CI (Classic Indie)

Get these and be a better human being:

HOUSE TORNADO + THE FAT SKIER
RED HEAVEN
LIMBO

Then go after all the others. When you're done, start with the Pixies.

JP Almeida (JP Almeida), Sunday, 2 February 2003 19:15 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'd have to go with IN A DOGHOUSE for my favorite - it's got most of the original demo tracks, many of which were re-recorded for the first 4AD album. The originals are even scarier and starker than the official versions; these are the recordings that made me fall in love with the band. HOUSE TORNADO ranks as #2 for me, the perfect synthesis of their haunted early material and later, calmer, poppier stuff ("Juno" is still uplifting).

I just saw Kristin play live about a year ago, and she's still got it.

mike a (mike a), Sunday, 2 February 2003 21:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

it's all about this!

http://www.inkblotmagazine.com/rev-archive/images/ca_muses.jpg

all! about! this!

Red Heaven is splendid as well, but really, The Real Ramona balances pop and barbed, spiky unease better than any album i've ever heard by anyone ever, FACT.

er...Tanya & Kristin are back working together? Did I miss a meeting? Details, STAT!

Charlie (Charlie), Sunday, 2 February 2003 22:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

Charlie - there are rumours that Tanya will turn up for the Astoria gig on the 20 March. I know that would get people excited - everyone loves a reunion - but i hope she doesn't. Her songs were always the weakest on the early albums - like Belly tracks that had found their way back in time. But Throwing Muses are the most underrated band of the last twenty years, I think, and Kristin the best living songwriter. I mean it. No one has her poetry. And don't let anyone tell you that Sunny Border Blue isn't a classic. The music doesn't push towards the unusual so much as early Muses did, of course, but the songs - listen to those songs ...

paul myerscough, Sunday, 2 February 2003 23:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

Classic. House Tornado is really great.

Juan (Juan), Monday, 3 February 2003 01:29 (twenty-one years ago) link

two months pass...
is anyone else as amazed with the new album as as I am? It seems like it's been a quiet response, and this is their most amazing album in a decade...

It's too different from the first album or 'real ramona' to really allow for easy comparison but... well, I liked 'red heaven' and 'imbo' ok but never ever listen to them. The songwriting here hasn't been so consistently on since the first two albums and eps. I'm 100% re-smitten.

milton, Thursday, 17 April 2003 21:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

love them.

but less classic after kristen started taking her meds. or something.

i have "soap and water" in my head all the time.

brian badword (badwords), Friday, 18 April 2003 05:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

nine months pass...
Wow, I just saw that Free Kitten apparently covered Belly on some KRS comp!

Jon Williams (ex machina), Tuesday, 3 February 2004 22:28 (twenty years ago) link

two months pass...
a nice surpise: i found a very old mix tape last night with two t.m. tracks, cottonmouth and dizzy. i've been inwardly humming the later all day. i'm feeling very tender towards them as a result, and feeling very bad that none of my t.m./kristin hersh cds survived a particularly ferocious, bankruptcy-driven purge some years ago.

lauren (laurenp), Friday, 30 April 2004 16:45 (nineteen years ago) link

eleven months pass...
What an odd thread. The impeccable first half of University (second half falters a bit but it's not terrible by any means) and the entirety of The Grotto is killing me today. I haven't heard Red Heaven and I still haven't listened to Hunkpapa in full but everything else is classic to the umpteenth power.

Ian Riese-Moraine. To Hell with you and your gradual evolution! (Eastern Mantra), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 21:56 (nineteen years ago) link

four months pass...
God, I'd almost forgotten about that reunion album...

Thoughts on: Throwing Muses (s/t 2003) vs. Red Heaven vs. 50 Foot Wave - Golden Ocean ?

I've still not heard TM2003 or Golden Ocean ffs. I guess I've been wary, because I'm real picky about the TM output I do like. Ignoring the more average (by their standards, not others) albums (Hunkpapa, Limbo, University, for KH solo I dropped off after Strange Angels sadly) makes them seem SO much more legendary in my mind.

Relative prolificity (and Kirsten not losing the plot) has I'd agree, really hurt their standing compared to other similarly awesome bands.

fandango (fandango), Saturday, 20 August 2005 09:22 (eighteen years ago) link

50 foot wave >> the 2003 TM album

jimmy glass (electricsound), Saturday, 20 August 2005 11:40 (eighteen years ago) link

(in sound quality at the very very least)

jimmy glass (electricsound), Saturday, 20 August 2005 11:40 (eighteen years ago) link

I agree with Charlie: it's all about that.

the pinefox, Saturday, 20 August 2005 14:01 (eighteen years ago) link

Aw, come on, ES! I love the fact that the S/T album is like her Seamonsters, in a sense. (And, yeah, I like it a scootch better than Golden Ocean, tho "Clara Bow" beats all takers.)

David R. (popshots75`), Saturday, 20 August 2005 14:22 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm a bit more fond of 2003 s/t than Golden Ocean -- although the latter's production is better.

Ian Riese-Moraine: a casualty of social estrangement. (Eastern Mantra), Saturday, 20 August 2005 20:23 (eighteen years ago) link

TM03 beats Golden Ocean but only because of the drumming.

kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 20 August 2005 20:33 (eighteen years ago) link

"Not Too Soon" sounds totally out of place on _The Real Ramona_. It sticks out like a polished diamond in a pile of tarnished silver dollars. And it's Tanya's best TM offering, by a wide country hectare.

Question.

Does anyone else, anywhere, ever, dislike "Not Too Soon" and feel, much like I do, that it's the one track that keeps The Real Ramona from being solid start-to-finish?

I much, much prefer "Green" and "The River," Tanya-wise.

babyalive (babyalive), Saturday, 20 August 2005 22:37 (eighteen years ago) link

i'm liking throwing muses more than i used to. i don't think they work as an album band (not that they're a "singles band," but shuffle play has really helped me listen to their songs individually and isolate lyrics and parts i like, which is harder when slogging through a 45-minute LP).

s/c (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 20 August 2005 23:02 (eighteen years ago) link

Well, Sophia, you know how I feel on it. "Not Too Soon" was the first TM song I heard, so I'm quite attached to it. I actually haven't listened to The Real Ramona in about a year or so, but the only song I don't remember liking as much was "Two-Step", but it just seems weird for it to come after "Say Goodbye". I should listen in again. I really want to hear "Hook in Her Head" now. If I could only get Ethan away from playing Green Day on my stereo right now...

Ian Riese-Moraine: a casualty of social estrangement. (Eastern Mantra), Sunday, 21 August 2005 00:21 (eighteen years ago) link

I love "Not Too Soon" but I'll admit it is a little out of place on the LP.

nickn (nickn), Sunday, 21 August 2005 01:50 (eighteen years ago) link

one year passes...
As I revealed on the Belly thread on NU ILM last week, I'm only now discovering Throwing Muses. Having listened to The Real Ramona and University, I can admit to being quite impressed with Hersh's interpolation of odd textures and femi-literary themes into three-minute pop songs on the former.

Should I buy the first album? Its reputation scares me, slightly.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 22 February 2007 23:03 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh, suck it up & buy it.

David R., Thursday, 22 February 2007 23:13 (seventeen years ago) link

BUY

fandango, Thursday, 22 February 2007 23:19 (seventeen years ago) link

This is scarier:

When friends turn psychotic, I withdraw. I haven't found black leotards sexy since I broke up with Sheila in 1962. I'm rarely persuaded that verbal dissociation reflects any social problems but the poet's own. So while I'm happy to grant the originality and even craft of Kristen Hersh's quavery free-form folk-punk, I'd do the same for the art of H.P. Lovecraft, Anaïs Nin, or Diamanda Galas. Fans of whom will pay more mind to Hersh's buzz than I do. C -- Christgau

Thankfully the two albums I own sound nothing like this.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 22 February 2007 23:20 (seventeen years ago) link

1> "Furious" is the best TM track evar
2> Kate's first post to this thread is her best post evar

libarian, Thursday, 22 February 2007 23:49 (seventeen years ago) link

absolutely buy it!

i don't even know what to say about that christgau quote.

Surmounter, Thursday, 22 February 2007 23:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Disappointed by the lack of love for Hunkpapa on this thread. But then there's no reason why it should hook deeply into other people's lives like it does mine.

Otherwise I mostly agree with all that above.

DavidM, Friday, 23 February 2007 00:19 (seventeen years ago) link

i LOVE hunkpapa! always thought it was underappreciated

Surmounter, Friday, 23 February 2007 00:19 (seventeen years ago) link

if devil's roof isn't a good pop song i don't know what it is

Surmounter, Friday, 23 February 2007 00:24 (seventeen years ago) link

not to mention mania

Surmounter, Friday, 23 February 2007 00:47 (seventeen years ago) link

hunkpapa has great songs, but the production is terrible. mania is a great example... you hear that live and it blows your mind, but the hunkpapa version is so defanged.

f. hazel, Friday, 23 February 2007 00:55 (seventeen years ago) link

i dunno i like the production on mania album version, no qualms

what's wrong with hunkpapa's productin? think it's just fine

Surmounter, Friday, 23 February 2007 00:59 (seventeen years ago) link

Hunkpapa's the only one of the original TM albums that I never warmed to...will have to revisit at some point as I can't remember much about it now. And yeah, Xgau's take on them is one of his flat-out-wrong moments. I suspect that he disliked something he projected onto them...have to admit that when I first read about them (can't remember where, but it wasn't RC) I was lead to expect something annoying.

I've never been a huge fan of Hersh's folky side, but for some reason her solo Sunny Border Blue (which skirts that territory) has turned into the album of hers that I play the most. I think that back in the 90's, House Tornado was my favorite, and I definitely spent a *long* time trying to figure out some of the guitar parts on that one.

dlp9001, Friday, 23 February 2007 01:28 (seventeen years ago) link

i know!

i was gonna be like

okay that review is just WRONG

cuz it is.

Surmounter, Friday, 23 February 2007 01:30 (seventeen years ago) link

wrongness combined with arrogance sucks

Surmounter, Friday, 23 February 2007 01:31 (seventeen years ago) link

Alfred, you need the first Muses album. I hate to jump and say it's better than the other albums, but it sure seems like it counts more, it's more emotional. It's just too important to miss. God I can just hear "Call Me" in my mind right now. The entire album is awe-inspiring from start to finish. I remember when I first heard them I thought they were strange, not annoying but strange, and then I began to understand there were hooks in that strangeness, and I was hooked. Maybe that's why I still like the first album the most because it was such a shock going from a non-Muses world to one in which they existed. They were truly one of a kind.

Come on folks - back me up here, isn't the first album the best?

As for Hunkpapa, it occurs to me F.Hazel is exactly on the money about the stale production. That's got a lot to do with why that album is so inferior despite several fine tracks which were so much more fun live (Mania was my fave btw). But at the time I never thought much about production so I could never put a finger on what was wrong there. By golly, that's it!

Bimble, Friday, 23 February 2007 05:34 (seventeen years ago) link

first album's my favorite, with 'chains changed' ep as my aux favorite

'house tornado' / 'fat skier' are in the footsteps of the debut, 'hunkpapa' was the first attempt to simplify the production & density of songwriting to go pop, and it's got many great songs, but in hindsight it's a warmup for 'ramona'

still love the 2003 s/t muses reunion, most of the strongest songs are in the 2nd half

Milton Parker, Friday, 23 February 2007 05:44 (seventeen years ago) link

i'd put house tornado on the same level as the first album, and they both have great followup EPs as well... chains changed and the fat skier. university and limbo are really great too! i probably prefer them to the real ramona and red heaven. as albums. every one of their albums has great songs.

i need to get the newer eponymous one and see how it sounds. the new kristin hersh i'm not sure about yet. loved the grotto however.

f. hazel, Friday, 23 February 2007 06:12 (seventeen years ago) link

bimble i had no idea!

i seem to be in the minority then, liking the production on Hunkpapa - I did used to have a problem with the production of House Tornado.

i've only heard bits and pieces of the first album - i know. the real ramona is beautiful and i like limbo a lot. i need to revisit the thick of university - bright yellow gun has a way of steamrolling you through to Snake.

the 2003 Throwing Muses is awesome.

Surmounter, Friday, 23 February 2007 06:33 (seventeen years ago) link

Man, I need to get The Real Ramona. Hunkpapa was the first one I heard, and I liked it, though "Fall Down" is the only song on it that I really love, and there's nothing on it with quite the same power as, say, "Call Me." But to be fair, I could say that about a lot of albums I love.

clotpoll, Friday, 23 February 2007 07:42 (seventeen years ago) link

also hi again, sorry for tangent--

if you like the more orchestrated, multi-parted beach boys-esque turns mid song, and more of kristin's wry, yowling narratives and you've never dug into her albums sky motel and sunny border blue, do yourself a favor and visit/revisit. it's almost like an epic spiritual trilogy in hindsight -- that was basically her trajectory from 96-02: limbo-> sky motel-> sunny border blue. each album gets a bit more reflective and rootsy until sunny border blue contains a few songs about her old band and ends with pure catharsis on "listerine." gives me chills just thinking about it. anyway, yeah: those albums maybe don't ROCK as hard, but are definitely part of the same universe as limbo. highly recommended.

"another slice of death, please." (Austin), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 00:56 (five months ago) link

jeez she has a new album and I didn't even know

the absence of bikes (f. hazel), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 01:25 (five months ago) link

(Clear Pond Road released on May 30th)

the absence of bikes (f. hazel), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 01:25 (five months ago) link


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