Depression and what it's really like

being required to learn a lesson on schedule would make me resist the 'hard work'.

maybe the idea is just to routinize self-awareness, render self-judgments in lowest-possible-stakes terms, so that you can acclimatize yourself to doing them without their being freighted with everything that keeps a person frozen, stuck by the way they are.

io your summary seems otm! but I don't know WHY I am not interested enough to work at it, or whether it is just inhibition/uncertainty, or how to change it either way

maybe the idea is just to routinize self-awareness, render self-judgments in lowest-possible-stakes terms

this seems like a good goal and maybe I am overestimating the import the weekly lessons need to have - maybe it is ok just to have found a small lesson or something obvious but worth remembering, write that down and bear it in mind and be able to say "this week I started to feel bad but I thought about this one tiny point from last week and felt 5% less sad"?

(this is going to be my approach for this week, so I'll see if it seems sufficient)

having to fill things out would be hard for me, and that's kind of the point as I surface a lot of my anxieties as procrastination in work/social life. basically I'm scared to complete things. I'm not sure if it's because I'm afraid of being evaluated or because I feel nothing is ever really _done_ so why try to complete any part of it.

think of completing the worksheet as a tangible goal at the end of the therapy session, maybe? or something that you allocate time to add to throughout the week.

I guess what I am saying is that perhaps it's not the summary of the therapy that is the goal of this exercise, but instead the actual completion of the worksheet?

yeah. i'm obviously the most important thing in my life, so i would find it very hard to dial that down and perform a little activity that appeared to be an insignificant, inconsequential version of what i'm caught up in constantly ('if i'm going to THINK ABOUT MY FEELINGS then i had better really get somewhere by doing it, not this worksheet shit!').

maybe your person should be giving the 12-step advice: 'work the program'.

In the past, I've written a trivial comment on ilx or elsewhere, gone on with my day, and suddenly had an epiphany about life -- the reason I think some stupid thing that I based my comment in turns out to be some belief I inherited from my family and never questioned. Sometimes just putting your thoughts into words on paper stirs up those neurons.

I surface a lot of my anxieties as procrastination in work/social life. basically I'm scared to complete things.

hey me too! except I might be scared to start things.

I shall try to, uh, gamify the completion of the worksheet in my mind I guess. Worksheet completed = every last chest on level opened, progress to next level, etc; writing on worksheet = signifier of engagement and progress aside from actual meaning of writing

Just write across the top: "I am not good at starting things, such as this worksheet" and roll from there

If I'm avoiding starting something and it's detrimental to me and against what I claim to want, which is to progress in some way, it's usually because I'm uncertain of next steps, unstudied in that skill area, haven't solidified my ideas, or am just avoiding the study/work of digging in EVEN WHEN THE TOPIC INTERESTS ME. It's SO self-sabotaging. Lately I've been taking myself to task with questions like "Is this who you are, someone who lets herself be beaten by the unknown? Are you going to make any difference for people's lives by being afraid of learning??" It's kind of self-shaming, I guess, but not as punishment, just to get my goals back in sight. Won't work for everyone obv, and my procrastination/avoidance is not clinically significant, just a personal tendency that I'm not proud of.

It's kind of a personality glitch that's common to kids who were told they were smart or put in accelerated programs in school, according to some studies. Being intelligent, you feel like you're supposed to instantly figure things out or do well at them, and when you're not you feel like a failure. So you avoid new things, or avoid starting things.

Oh huh that's interesting.

I keep meaning to read that Carol Dweck book on this subject, but (drum roll) not starting it

lol

<3 aps throw any ol fuckin answer down and slam it on the desk like a boss imo

that's the spirit!

from what i've discovered re: being smart, having a hard time doing shit like this is that when you're smart it's pretty easy to get far just half-assing it. at least that's my case. overcoming depression, particularly with CBT type methods, requires a committed, daily, long-term discipline that doesn't bear any rewards without 1) significant sacrifice of time and emotion and 2) doesn't deliver rewards easily or quickly. this makes it a pain in the ass for me to get through this stuff, too.

like, i don't think you can half-ass this stuff if it's going to work

it's worth noting that intelligence, especially supposedly inherent intelligence measured by tests, is generally a garbage concept. the truth is that a lot of people could half-ass it should they invest the initial time to hone skills.

it's just that some people have honed the skill to intuit simple things and we're sailing on that

you can't really intuitively pull yourself out of depression

persistence is a skill! it requires practice. once i started to think about it that way, that i was developing a skill rather than filling a deficiency in myself, i have found that i was more likely to persist (in whatever situation) rather than giving up in frustration/boredom/arrogance.

Guys I had a short recovery. Like I was me again. I thought it was done. Then Saturday it was back. And worse. 10x worse. I feel like my days are numbered. Not by my one hand but I can't walk steadily. I can't talk or think properly. I feel like I'm 95. I feel like I need to be in hospital but then if my marriage goes sour illlose my kids and then it shotgun to the head time. I'm fuckef fucked fuckef

Yeah, the primary skill I learned in K-12 was how to circumvent effort as much as possible while still staying under the radar. It's not a skill that's served me in any positive way as an adult.

sunny?

sunny! we are with you! get well!

on a much lighter note, I feel the thread deserves a mention of this classic:
http://www.amazon.com/How-Good-bye-Depression-Hiroyuki-Nishigaki-ebook/dp/B007K97QIS/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1389739085&sr=1-1

hey take care sunny, thinking of you

Yeah, the primary skill I learned in K-12 was how to circumvent effort as much as possible while still staying under the radar. It's not a skill that's served me in any positive way as an adult.

hmm, that sounds very familiar. yeah I dunno if putting the time into the paperwork is going to translate to actually acquiring the skills required to beat this thing (or at least beat it back a little as needed), but it's definitely a useful and do-able first step to try.

here goes! I have written a lot of STUFF on the sheet so even if it's not what she wanted at least she should see I've put more time in. thanks to everyone here for encouragement and wise words

Hey sunny, we hear you and we're with you. You're not losing your mind or anything, this is temporary and treatable. Also pp isn't going to leave you because he knows which side his bread is buttered on and he'd be a fool (also we can find him irl). You got through cancer, you can get through this. Any progress on getting to see your doc?

I wouldn't be so sure about that

He's calling but I can't take his calls. It a whole lot of nothing

take deep breaths and look at pictures of great danes

Oh jeez sunny, this sounds horrific - are you taking any meds at all? Can you go to the er? If you go see someone, they're most likely not gonna hospitalize you, if that's what you're worried about, but they can def help you get through this, even if it's just a prescription for klonopin our something

fuck

sunny, dude, that voice in your head is not the truth, even though it feels like it. trust. ain't no-one leaving nobody and your kids are staying right where they belong.

please believe io, she speaks the truth

You have to do just one thing that gets you some help, just answer the phone or just go to your normal doctor/GP and let them know the situation so they can advocate for you. You have to keep it together for some Great Dane puppy who needs you.

http://greatdaneservicedog.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/a2009121112922.jpg?w=197&h=300

^^^^ yes

also the poetry of Jah is the cloud that will carry u thru this

Walk with Me - Jah!nathan Larroquette

They clench their fists in ire / All too anxious to milk the desire / Breath new life into their reality / Oh won't you, won't you walk with me / If I've cut thee / An apology / Oh won't you, won't you walk with me / Its an awkward sensation / The knowing / The light / But I plead / Unstitch their eyes / Let them have sight / Breath new life into their reality / Oh won't you, won't you walk with me

one more for good measure

Funk Rap

Walking down the street just the other day / I see a blue pink panther coming my way / A fajita pita in his hand / Dreaded hair tied back with a rubber band / He blew me a kiss / Floated up to the sky / Then I looked into a mirror / And dived into the black of my eye / There I met a funky green worm / He gave me a map to the river of sperm / There I kick boxed with an armadillo / Then I woke up, I was punching my pillow / It was all a dream / But maybe that is the key / To the lock that stops us from prosperity

I'm such a fucking idiot. I can't believe I stupid enough to come to a fucking ER.

Hi, baby. Maybe it's naive of me because ERs in NYC are terrible but I'm glad yr seeing some medical professionals.

good for you for addressing the issue proactively

otm

it's the right thing, sunny

Yeah nothing stupid about it, lady! Pls look after yrself xx

Started to take some medication. Just this step is making me feel a bit better.

Sometimes over the years I had to go to the ER. Sometimes I felt stupid and weak and tried to sneak out. Sometimes I was almost dead. I never thought I had proved I was sick enough or worthy enough to get help.

Feeling like you might need to go the emergency room can be a good reason to go to the emergency room. Put my fate in someone else hand once in a while.

Yeah turning it over to others while so your brain can rest and heal is a good thing. Thinking of you, sunny!

I don't even know why I'm going to bother posting this, because a) it won't get noticed, and b) even if it does get noticed, so fucking what? It doesn't do an ounce of good, it doesn't achieve anything constructive and I still suffer constantly, day in and day out.

Suffering from chronic pain and weird un-associated symptoms of various other diseases which don't even seem to have names, people don't have much sympathy for you. I don't really want to go into them here, the chronic pain is enough and even then, you just tend to get blanked. in my experience any way.

My mother suffers from chronic depression and as such, she tends to monopolize most of the attention in my family. I don't want attention, but I just want to have a shoulder to cry on every now and then, but everyone is burned out by my mother enough.

life has descended into some kind of Kafka-esque nightmare where every conceivable exit is sealed off by walls covered in blank stares or seemingly nonsensical turning-asides of the thrust to find an answer. I go to the doc and he says, "nope, sorry, no pain medication for you, you have addiction issues, remember?" Stress seems to widen the area afflicted by pain and other issues, but once i relax again, the pain region does not contract, it remains static, as though it has burned its mark there and will remain forever and ever and ever and ever.

I don't know if that makes it psychological or not. I've gone long, long periods of time where I'm perfectly relaxed and happy, yet still it remains. No-one can find an answer.

it just makes me so fucking sick of life.

most of my friends have moved away. i have a dead-end job. i'm starting to realize various other fucked up things about my upbringing. i just feel full of hate and pain and anguish and wish i could just drop dead from a fucking heart attack or something, so it'd all be over. i don't want people's sympathy or concern, i just want a resolution, some answers. anything. anything. otoh, it frightens me that whenever i post or discuss this kind of thing with anyone, it seems to get ignored. like they supernaturally glaze over as though some puppet master bent on my destruction and suffering is pulling their strings.

oh god, someone, something help.

sorry for the rant/moan. i just needed to get it out.

I think your last sentence answers your first. Vent away, that's what this thread is there for. You didn't go into lots of detail here, but I'm sorry you're going through such stuff. Definitely feel you on the friends front, and some of the rest of that paragraph. I'd say try to make new friends, but since I've struggled with that myself I don't have much good advice! In any case, consider yourself noticed.

friends are useless for depression. depressive friends are even worse, because then you're BOTH lost to each other.

things that are not useless: hot sauce, wicked metal records, lightbulbs, big windows, cooking.

thank you Vinnie.

j, you're absolutely right and a ton of my friends are depressed. my parents are depressed. i just live ravaged by pain from day to day. will i have to face this for another 60 years. the last two have been hellish and sad enough. i just feel totally unable to deal with life. nothing is fun. everything makes me want to scream.

scream then!

i suffer from horrible cowardice in the face of other people's intractable problems - it's very easy to fall into the trap of just "politely ignoring" someone else's pain because you have no idea how it can be resolved but you feel like an expression of sympathy is insufficient.

chronic pain sounds like an absolute fucker - especially because so much of the advice around it can easily tip into woo and patronising statements of the obvious, which is the last thing you want when you're also dealing with depression. And not having a shoulder to cry on, feeling guilty and selfish for needing to take up someone's emotional time, is horrible. In the absence of a close person you can talk to, this thread's not too awful, I think, as a place to get some of it out.

AM that sounds thoroughly shitty and how would somebody in your situation not feel depressed, isolated, miserable? i don't have anything really helpful to say except whenever somebody vents on this thread it's proof that there are kindred souls in the world and that others can empathize your pain even if it feels like people in close proximity to you don't.

find something in you to keep fighting for and keep fighting, imo.