Depression and what it's really like

I thought if I did I would feel like a failure and never want to go back.

― even the beatles had a coinstar machine in their living room (Crabbits), Sunday, January 5, 2014 1:07 PM (48 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Failure is a terrible word to apply to oneself. You probably know this way better than me, but that would be a perfect example cognitive dissonance. I am in my mid 20s and I have no belief in having a career or a girlfriend. Despite all this you have both, that's a lot. Reading your post it just gave me a good dose of hope.

Crabbits, that brochure is otm!! Don't be so quick to blame your own brain for responding quite normally to a rly stressful job. Hope you feel better soon.

^^^^

word

Hey Crabbits, I have not suffered from severe depression as an adult but buying a car was still a huge deal that made me paralysed with worry and the responsibility. It took me weeks to get used to it.

xpost yes yes yes

I've wondered, if it is just job-caused, is my job is even worthwhile if it means new psychiatric medications, no sleep, calls to the employee assistance hotline just to rotate through someone new to listen during that day's crying jag. Or if I just have a broken brain and I would feel this way anyway but without the insurance to treat it.

I've come around to thinking that this is the cost of relying on ppl who care, and for me, I just had to dial back my investment in work and find other pursuits to equalize. No other job has ever caused me this sort of physical manifestation of mental/emotional stress. Ever!

vicious circles, combinations of vicious circles biting each other - you're doing a job that's got a lot of stress factors built in, no matter who does it. it sounds like for a lot of the time you've been dealing successfully with those factors? it doesn't take much of a tip of the balance to upset how we deal with the day to day. it's immaterial whether that's peculiar to you or not, to be honest. don't ask yourself "how do other people cope?" - it's all about how you cope. any means necessary in my experience.

sometimes you have to prioritize the most important stuff and allow some things to slide a little, for a while. reevaluate the standards you're setting for yourself in everything and ask yourself "where am i being too hard on myself at the moment?" it's okay to be full of feelings, feelings that make us want to cry sometimes. it's okay to cry too. shutting the feelings out makes me feel ill, personally. part of the bad spiral.

easier said than done but trying to force yourself to get enough sleep every day is a biggie i think. lack of sleep is a fast track to mental health issues. i try to start by concentrating on doing that, then on going thru the tedious routines of staying alive and functional. if you can keep some sort of pattern going there - well, you won't feel magically cured, but it's a baseline for care of the self that will help you thru i think.

"taking care of yourself" is absolute number 1 priority and let the rest come back when it's ready.

for me, I just had to dial back my investment in work and find other pursuits to equalize

btw this has been a 3 year process involving acupuncture and doctor's visits on one end and 2014 somewhat stabilized me on the other end. i didn't mean to make it sound easy; i meant to gloss over the details of my personal life because i don't really want to share them here. i wish you the best crabbits and i really hope you realize that this is very common in our profession. i think the people who can survive are the ones who draw firm lines for themselves and respect their own boundaries, even mental ones. it doesn't mean you care less about your job, it just means you care more about you and your own welfare, which is (as noted) of utmost importance. don't make any decisions right now, just try to feel better first. then you will be better prepared to make decisions.

You guys' job is the greatest fucking job and to me must be the hardest fucking job. I could never hold up to the wear and tear bc my depression brain is too much of a sponge to the emotional weather of the ppl around me and I don't put up the right boundaries and I get soaked and (hold that metaphor) mold and E. coli starts growing on me and then I can't help anyone.

But you guys (abbs/LL) obv feel the fear and do it anyway. I have deep respect for that, awe even.

My wife became seriously ill in February, currently ongoing, in a way that (I can't go into much detail since I am an idiot who posts under his govt name) while not life threatening involves a tremendous amt of misery and fear for her, and because my brain is broken and I have bad barriers it has been a year of deep despair in my headscape and a tremendous challenge for me to stay afloat enough to be a good caregiver while somehow avoiding my own pit of no return. We have survived the most difficult year either of us have known since our early 20s (before we knew each other) and I hope it's not just superstitious calendar worship that things seem more hopeful these past few days than they have since... August?

Love and strength to my depressive ilxor massive.

xps the non-stop crying is just the worst. back in september, when i basically had a breakdown, i would spend half the day panic-crying (breathless sobbing that would lead to almost hyperventilating; racing heart; a total feeling of terror) and the other half despair-crying (steady sad crying; mostly quiet; terror replaced by hopelessness). crying in front of other people (including my own husband) is probably the #2 thing that embarrasses me most in the world, so this situation particularly sucked.

i am thankful every day since then that anti-depressants have totally worked for me (for now).

I've wondered, if it is just job-caused, is my job is even worthwhile if it means new psychiatric medications, no sleep, calls to the employee assistance hotline just to rotate through someone new to listen during that day's crying jag. Or if I just have a broken brain and I would feel this way anyway but without the insurance to treat it.

― even the beatles had a coinstar machine in their living room (Crabbits), Sunday, January 5, 2014 11:50 AM (4 hours ago)

First off, there should be some psych meds out there that will help you sleep.

Secondly, you probably need to think about how much your job means to you. Could you be happier in a lower-stress occupation? I definitely went through this when I started a new "career," (this was over 10 years ago) and I finally decided "this is what I want to be doing with my life, I need to fix what's wrong with me so I can do it well."

Sorry to hear this, both of you.

In mine own life, I've come to think of depression as kinda like cancer. One is never completely cured; one is only ever in remission. If it comes back, that is the nature of the beast, not a failing in you.

Depression is something like a susceptibility on a biological level. STRESS + biological susceptibility = BOOM.

Hope all of you can find something that works for you, whatever that thing turns out to be.

oh Abbs. i went on anti-depressants for the first time in my life this year because of teaching. this job is so hard. you're not a failure. i've been trying LL's advice of investing a little less in work and a little more in other things. i feel like a criminal about it sometimes. but living the way i did my first year is not sustainable, and i don't want to be miserable forever.

that wasn't really a helpful comment. i just know how you feel, is all. i am glad you've taken some time.

i feel like a criminal about it sometimes. but living the way i did my first year is not sustainable, and i don't want to be miserable forever.

that is exactly my point -- it's not sustainable. you know how when you're like 22 and going bananas and never sleeping and smoking and drinking (and ?) everything that crosses your path? (general "you" there) you knew that couldn't last forever too. some people postpone that realization, but living like that is not sustainable if you want to continue living. so...somehow i have used that logic of unsustainability to convince myself that throwing my entire spiritual self into my work, when the outcome is really out of my control, is actually kinda self-destructive. it was very clearly self destructive a few years ago. or so i have told myself since i started to pull back. better to give my profession and professional self the 40 hours it deserves and then go home and enjoy my activities of choice. Never ever let the work slip in quality or reliability, but don't spend every waking moment trying to improve it.

sustainable living, as far as lifestyle goes, is a long-term goal that is difficult for me. it's amazing how well everyday things go when i keep up positive routines and follow my personal rules, but it's letting really stupid small things slip that throws the whole system out of alignment. not life tragedies or accidents, but dumb things like not cleaning out the refrigerator.

I was eventually convinced after years of bullying at church and at school anyone who liked me was pretending

I was never bullied and sure as hell didn't go to church, but the belief in people pretending hits home pretty hard. It wasn't until I read it just now that I realized this is the basis of all human interaction for me.
So, uh, thanks?

Speaking of which, I last saw my therapist the week before Christmas. He decided to take me off my antidepressants and asked me to call in a week or to email/call him at any time if things got bad.
Well, they've gotten bad. Very, very bad. Besides frequent irrational emotional outbursts (which I think have made my children slightly terrified of me) my cognition seems to be going haywire. I keep falling down. Not Michael Douglas style (yet) but literally falling. I have bruises everywhere. Yesterday it took me a good 60 seconds to remember how to go from the lock screen to the home screen on my iPad. I just stared at it until finally 'oh slide it' worked its way to my consciousness. I work on mobile devices for a living and I couldn't remember to slide it. Not to mention it's written on the fucking screen.
I've tried to contact my therapist 5 times over the past two weeks. I've gotten his answering service, his receptionist twice, his voicemail and I've emailed him but no reply. I understand he is busy being one of the better psychologists in this part of the country but shit is starting to get fucking real. I don't want to go back on Zoloft but I need some kind of confirmation that this will pass. Soon. Or not at all? Was I like this before I started anti-deps? I can't remember. What do I do here? I mean what the fuck do I do? Help, ilxors, pls.

Did I mention I'm scared too? Like terrified 24/7 and I don't know what of.

Hi, sunny! I can't answer any of those questions but I love you and hope you get help/find ways to mitigate these experiences ASAP. I was feverish and sick the other week and had to get on and off planes and navigate airports and public transit and stuff, and the affect on my responsiveness was something like you describe: really long times to think about simple things; barely able to think of how to, for instance, ask for a glass of water; clumsiness; brain fogged by fever. It was terrible and I'm sorry this is happening to you.

I can't help thinking it does not seem incredibly responsible of your therapist to a) discontinue yr meds right before a major holiday and b) not be extremely available to you throughout this time.

It will pass. It's a thing.

I was eventually convinced after years of bullying at church and at school anyone who liked me was pretending

^^^ FEELIN THIS ^^^

xp yeah, that is what i thought as well -- it sounds like med withdrawal symptoms. I forgot to call in a refill at one point last year, so I was unmedicated for half a week, and I definitely had the physical balance problems and brain fog and emotional turbulence.

IO, I love you. Thank you Thank you Thank you. <3

YFAITCB - This pretty much nails it:

Physical symptoms include problems with balance, gastrointestinal and flu-like symptoms, and sensory and sleep disturbances. Psychological symptoms include anxiety and/or agitation, crying spells, irritability and aggressiveness."

— Journal of Clinical Psychiatry(1997) 5u (7):pp5–10[14]

This all makes me feel better but I don't like that wiki page's ambiguity with regard to this lasting days, weeks , months or YEARS.

Oh and "we" decided it would be just a peachy idea to take a break from Xanax at the same time which obvs isn't so peachy afterall.

sending u love sunny xoxo

veg xoxoxoxo

So you just quit taking them, he didn't have you taper off or anything? That's messed up.

I went off Lexapro last year and I tapered by halves every two weeks and I still had slight withdrawals. Hang in there, it will get better.

hey ss

is your therapist trying to kill you and your family?!?

I understand he is busy being one of the better psychologists in this part of the country

apparently not

you don't want to meet the other ones in a dark alley, is what we're saying

xp exactly what i was gonna post

sunny, this sounds terrifying, and it's totally shit that your therapist isn't returning your messages. can you get an emergency prescription for xanax in the meantime, like from your GP?

i wish i would go on drugs but i'm too much of a procrastinator to ever go to a dr. it doesn't help that they can all give you appointments in two months. i get that pretending to like you thing. part of the problem is i feel like i spend the majority of my non-alone time pretending not to hate people. these things are related.

imo you should make an appt, and if you still need it in two months then go; if not then say you have an appt and take time off work

that's good advice! also, based on this thread, all the best people think others are only pretending to like them.

I've tried to contact my therapist 5 times over the past two weeks. I've gotten his answering service, his receptionist twice, his voicemail and I've emailed him but no reply. I understand he is busy being one of the better psychologists in this part of the country

whoa whoa whoa this a total violation of the professional standards of his/her licensing body, I am certain. You don't need anything else on your plate right now, but this is the sort of thing that really should be reported to the board (by all means outsource the reporting part to someone else on your behalf--you just focus on you. And then dump the fucking asshole for an actual mental health professional). Totally unacceptable. Take care and please hit me up on e-mail if I can be of any assistance!

Echoing everyone else that this guy sounds unprofessional as hell. And SSRIs are meant to be tapered off to avoid precisely those crazy withdrawal symptoms.

Completely as an aside:

I was going to say something snarky like: "you're lucky that people pretend to like you; no one's ever bothered pretending with me (but clearly I'm not one of the "best people" blah blah etc)" but that's the kind of thought I have to interrogate these days. Because often when I'm experiencing that sharp, irrational "everybody haaaaates me" what I am actually feeling is "I hate this world, I hate this life, and everything in it, especially me" and project that hatred onto the people who are around me. (This is an exceptionally easy thing to do when there are places freely available on the internet where many people will openly express hate; that's a form of self harm.)

But I do have to wonder if that "everyone is pretending to like me" feeling is also a kind of projection. If it's an externalisation of a sense of alienation, of going through the motions, of pretending to like whatever situation it is one is living in? I don't know. That observation might be helpful, it might not be.

Sunny, your therapist seems to be a jerk, ditto BB on the tapered withdrawal - even with tapering, it can be a rollercoaster coming off them, cold turkey is *not* recommended.

To BB's aside - I know people have pretended to like me in the past, because other people have reported (X would rather you didn't hang out with the group, Y always slags you off when you're not there, type stuff), which says a *lot* about the reporter but is a horrible experience anyway.

Mostly I don't feel like everybody hates me. Just that nobody loves me, except my dad (hurray for dad). And maybe I do not love myself, and maybe that's actually pretty reasonable - I'm no more important or special than anyone else on the planet, nor your average rock or pigeon come to that. Which is all *fine* on a good day, but on a bad day I think nobody would mind if I stopped existing, some people would prefer it, & it would be an awful lot easier on me - and I can see why people find comfort in Jesus. (I've just had three weeks of mostly bad days.)

Aside to BB - not much I can say here but sorry again for being a crappy friend.

it seems likely to me that other people's feelings about us are partly contingent on a bunch of things - how well they know us, the context(s) in which they know us, their own frame of mind from day to day, and that any third party reporting back on what other people have said is filtering the reality of that person's attitude thru a whole nother set of contingencies - group dynamics, the relationship between reporter and reportee, probly a near-infinite list of possibles

which is to say that in lots of ways we can never really know what other people think about us, but also to say we're all in that same boat and maybe our reciprocal feelings are affected by that. and it's good to try and remind yourself that perceptions of perceptions of perceptions can turn into a hall of mirrors without getting at anything very solid, and if you genuinely like a bunch of other people then surely most of us are like that too?

i know that logic is a piss-poor approach to when we feel down about ourselves so sorry but i find it helps to remind myself that the way i see others is filtered a ton thru the way i see myself

Zora, the only thing I can say is, I'm really sorry that you feel like a crappy friend. I don't think of you as a crappy friend at all - if anything, you're one of the handful of UK ILX0rs who have made a consistent effort to keep in touch, even when I fall off the edge of the world - which makes you the opposite of crappy. It makes you the best kind of friend. The one who doesn't wait to be asked. Knowing you as well as I do, I think this probably has more to do with your feeling unloveable, rather than you *being* unloveable. You're a good person in a shitty situation; in my eyes, it doesn't reflect on you. (Though I know in your eyes, it probably does.) I am also in a couple of shitty situations right now which are making me kinda "bleurgh."

I don't disagree that there are people out there who will pretend to like a person, and badmouth person behind person's back - or *report* badmouthing for political reasons. That is unfortunately common - as common as how I said there are people who are prepared to hate *anyone* on the internet, and I will do as a target when they want someone to hate. But it's those moments when you deeply feel that *everyone* secretly feels a certain certain way about you, that might actually be an urgent message from your own secret feelings.

The one - and only - good takeaway I got from CBT (which otherwise was a wretched and damaging waste of time) was that that old truism - "when someone just doesn't like you, it usually says more about them than it does about you" - is capable of being completely reversed, as all great truths are. It is very easy to project hostility - or indifference, or "pretending to care" - that one feels oneself and cannot admit - onto other people. This can be the dark backing behind a hall of mirrors.

It's very easy for me, personally, to slip into self-loathing and self-pity and go "I am the most awful, useless person. Everybody hates me. See, X and Y and Z are acting in a completely hostile way towards me, that means *everyone* hates me!" Then I find out some missing piece of the puzzle about X, and discover, actually their angry behaviour towards me has nothing at all to do with me, and everything to do with some experience they are at that moment going through. (Or else the other thing can happen, and I can find out that Y and Z are being hostile towards me because they hate women/feminists/queers/immigrants/whatever else I can't help being, but that's not about me, either.) But when I externalise "X and Y and Z hate me, ergo, A and B and C hate me, too" that's not about A or B or C, that's about how I have come to recognise: that place is a harmful place for me! A, B and C don't hate me, I don't even hate A or B or C, but jesus fucking christ, I hate being in that space where all of them are, so I just see hatred everywhere." <- yes, I am thinking about a specific place when thinking about this example; I am thinking about my last workplace. It is certainly generalisable out to other experiences in my life! (including, LOL, yes, ILX) - so it might be a helpful insight to others - or it might not be and I'm a complete creep just projecting mine own experiences into places they don't belong! Either could be possible. I'm going to stop typing now because I don't think this is helpful.

p.s. Zora you are not a crappy friend. Again! ;)

CBT I've found hasn't been too great at getting at the root causes of depression. Like, it's techniques are helpful, but it's a pretty shallow approach IME.

I've struggled with the same damn stuff you guys are going through now... getting through it slowly. The only ideas I've found particularly helpful for this stuff come from Albert Ellis, one of the other founders of cognitive therapy. His approach is a little deeper and more philosophical than CBT, and he has some pretty brilliant workarounds for depressive shit. I know I've harped about him before, but his ideas are seriously the only things that have actually helped me in this wonderful journey.

A year ago I was obsessing about people hating me, not liking me, etc., and I stumbled on this article that kinda blew my mind. Tackling Your Dire Need For Approval

I just realised I think this probably has more to do with your feeling unloveable, rather than you *being* unloveable unloving.

^^^really easy mistake to have made but I think a pretty important one to rectify.

Sorry!

Thanks, I'll read your link, Spectrum.

oh hai everyone-is-only-pretending-to-like-me crew, you are good people on ILX and I am sorry that I have basically never contacted anyone outside ILX in 13 years of ILXing to be able to vouch for the same off-ILX; I am p. bad at waiting for others to make the first move, I suppose as a filter against pretenders, but really just as a bad and hypocritical habit, something I can point to to say "this guarantees that everyone is only pretending" while batting away any thoughts of "but YOU didn't phone either" with "ah but it's not my place"

and now, a deep breath, and a warning that the next post is going to be too long and too me-me-me and I'm sorry

Saw my therapist today. She's been totally nice and not criticised me outright (though maybe I need/deserve it) but was making the same "maybe this isn't the right time for therapy for you" noises I've heard from every therapist I've had.

It's true I guess, I've been mostly doing the homework so I am not 100% sure what exactly she's found disappointing, but I agree I've been halfassing it, not committing, producing the bare minimum for each CBT homework with a lame "I found this difficult" and no attempt to keep up with previous weeks' tasks on top of this week's half-assed one

or maybe it's just because my scores have barely shifted since I started, maybe I just need to fill in the first questionnaire with any new therapist at 40/40 bleak fuckin' misery and taper it down week by week so they can be all "but we've come so far!"

but I just, it's been 13 years since I first saw someone about depression and 23 years since I first thought that being dead sounded p. good but not worth putting any effort into, I've heard "maybe you're too low to fix right now, come back in a year" and "your scores are only moderate, you seem too comfortable to fix yourself, you're wasting our time" and, what is this "right time" I still need to wait for?