the Stranglers: Classicinblack or Dudinblack

"Bring on the Nubiles" is so deliberately offensive, yes. If you take it seriously, you have taken the bait.

Doesn't it make it any less stupid

^^^ It is really dumb. Possibly offended any grandparents who somehow heard it, so job well done.

Me and a school friend used to impersonate a radio station, ring random people and offer prizes if they could 'name that tune' - then played Bring on the Nubiles. Most slammed the phone down at this point, but one sweet old lady asked "is it The Osmonds?"

Actually, "The New Testament" boxset is being reissued with a bonus disc. It has every last EMI track.

I must correct myself. After spending years plumbing the depths of classic Stranglers, I was listening to the excellent "The UA Singles 77-82" 3CD set and lo and behold there were two b-sides I'd never heard!! "Wired" and "Crabs (live)", the latter appearing in studio form on a JJ solo album. While neither are stormers, I'm amazed that I somehow overlooked them and that they've never been compiled anywhere else before.

Wired is from Hugh Cornwell's solo album 'Nosferatu' which is definitely worth listening to if you don't know it. It's on spotify and most of the tracks are on youtube as well.

Ah yes, I actually have that! Thanks for the clarification.

These were on the 'Don't Bring Harry' EP, released in November '79, the same month that Nosferatu was released and that Hugh was arrested and charged with drug possession. It was released in time for the Christmas record buyers, with this sleeve:

http://www.vinylonthe.net/blah/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/2010-01-11_stranglers45.jpg

From Hugh's drug bust up until the release of 'Golden Brown' was a bit of a turbulent time for the band, really. Not creatively, but definitely personally and career-wise.

So JJ says "Don't bring Harry" and Hugh says "Never a frown with golden brown", pretty different attitudes towards heroin.

I've been listening to all their singles thanks to "The UA Singles 77-82" 3CD set and "Skin Deep: The Collection" 2CD (a terrible name for a great comp of all their 7" A's and B's from their Epic years). Was it just the elimination of drugs that resulted in the dramatic change in their sound or was it a conscious choice to go for a more mainstream approach? I mean, I love both their punk and pop phases but JJ's bass and Jet's drums are just so key to their early sound that when listening the way I've done, it's a dramatic difference between the era's.

I love seeing my old threads revived.

Was it just the elimination of drugs that resulted in the dramatic change in their sound or was it a conscious choice to go for a more mainstream approach? I mean, I love both their punk and pop phases but JJ's bass and Jet's drums are just so key to their early sound that when listening the way I've done, it's a dramatic difference between the era's.

― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Friday, March 14, 2014 4:24 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'd say it was a combination of things, really. Feline was the last of the "drug" albums, there's stories of JJ and Hugh sitting around smacked out of their skulls trying to write 'It's A Small World' and 'Ships That Pass In The Night' and taking forever because they kept nodding out... (The Meninblack, La Folie and Feline being the "heroin" albums, the albums before being influenced by a combination of other drugs). JJ came off heroin just after the time of Feline, Hugh stopped taking all drugs by the time of recording Aural Sculpture (the other two weren't into it, apparently, they were more into other drugs... Jet apparently being known as "the hoover" in the band at one point).

Drugs aside, the band started working with producers again around the time of Aural Sculpture: everything from The Raven up until Feline was self-produced with an engineer (Alan Winstanley, Steve Churchyard etc.) taking care of the technical obstacles. They used Laurie Latham on Aural Sculpture which was the first time they'd used a producer since Martin Rushent, who did the first three albums.

Also, after Feline, JJ & Hugh weren't meeting up to write together as often. A lot of the tracks on the last three Hugh-era albums were solely written by either Hugh or JJ alone and brought into the band, whereas before a lot of their songs would start off with an idea from one member or the other and be developed on between the two members (although there were exceptions, most notably 'Golden Brown', the music of which was written by Dave Greenfield and was moulded into a song by Hugh).

I think by the time of Dreamtime, Hugh was starting to form more of a "solo" identity in his songwriting, and I think he was starting to get bored of being in The Stranglers. I guess the attitudes between the members changed too: Hugh became more ambitious and wanted to be more successful, especially in America, whereas JJ wasn't too bothered about cracking America at all. By the time of 10, I think Hugh began to feel that the bands reputation and collective decisions were beginning to affect their chances of becoming successful to the degree that he wanted to be, and after a proposed American tour for 10 fell through, he decided to leave the band. The attitude being "well, I have no control over how people perceive the band, it's no longer the identity I want for myself anymore, so I'm leaving so I'll judged on my own terms".

Of course, it hasn't quite worked out that way. While Hugh is ploughing onwards, continuing to make (in my opinion) very good records, it would seem that some of the more hardcore Stranglers fans still resent him for leaving the band, and resent him for daring to not keep being Strangler Hugh circa 1978 over and over again, and as a result have sided with the rest of the band. There's still a group of Stranglers fans out there that would love the Stranglers to continue at all costs, even though Jet is seriously in a bad way at the moment (he had to leave a Stranglers tour recently because he ended up in hospital with breathing problems, and even though The Stranglers are on tour now, they play with a stand-in drummer most of the time and Jet only comes on for 3 or 4 songs in the middle of the set, after which he's on oxygen afterwards). JJ is talking about knocking The Stranglers on the head when Jet decides he absolutely can't do anything with The Stranglers anymore, but you'd be very surprised to learn that there's a group of fans there that would be happy for the band to continue in spite of this(!) ... I think the band have been such a huge part of these people's lives for so long that they can't handle the thought of being without the band, even though they've been very fucking fortunate to last this long and retain a fanbase, especially after Hugh left the band. Personally, I think their 40th anniversary (in September) would be the best time to leave it, else it would just become a joke. It's way, way too late for the original line-up to ever reform now. Way too late.

Nice posts! Are you secretly Hugh himself? (^_-)

I don't think I've heard a full Hugh solo album since "Hi-Fi". Your thoughts on them?

Of the albums he's released since Hi Fi, I really enjoy Beyond Elysian Fields (produced by Tony Visconti), which is a real singer-songwriter type of album, mostly based around acoustic guitars. It has a couple of misfires (the corny Bob Dylan tribute '24/7' and the story song 'The Story Of Harry Power'), but on the other hand: 'Land of a Thousand Kisses' (which has a Feline-like vibe to it), 'Cadiz', 'Beauty On The Beach' and 'Henry Moore' are up there with some of his best solo tracks for me.

I also really enjoy his most recent one, Totem and Taboo, recorded with Steve Albini, which is a stripped down (as you'd expect) effort completely focused on electric guitar, bass, drums and voice. It's not as polished as Guilty or Hi Fi and thankfully far from the '80s cheese of Wolf (even though I feel there's some decent songs on there, the production for the most part really ruins them), and there's some great tracks on there: the title track, 'A Street Called Carroll', 'Bad Vibrations' to name three off the top of my head. 'Stuck In Daily Mail Land' even sounds like The Jam melodically, if you can imagine The Jam with Billy Bragg on vocals.

Of the rest: Hooverdam is rawer than Totem and Taboo and was recorded by Liam Watson, who did Elephant by The White Stripes, but I find the production on it anaemic and some of the songs not quite up to snuff. I love 'Please Don't Put Me On A Slowboat To Trowbridge', 'Delightful Nightmare' and 'Philip K. Ridiculous', but it also has a couple of dirges such as 'Pleasure Of Your Company' and 'Within You Or Without You' that I could do without. 'Wrong Side Of The Tracks' is eerily close to Hendrix's 'Crosstown Traffic' for comfort, too.

There's also the odds and sodds collection Footprints In The Desert which were demos of songs which were rejected from Guilty: it has the (in my mind) great single 'Everybody', but also has plenty of cheese on it such as 'Sex Bomb' and 'So Sexual'. If you can imagine some of the cheesier moments from Wired but even more cheesier, then that's the album in a nutshell. It's my least favourite Hugh release by miles, and I don't consider it a proper album in anyway.

There's also his Nosferatu-like side project, Sons Of Shiva, which is worth at least one listen. I think Hugh takes more of a behind the scenes role on the album, though.

In fact, thinking about Hugh has generally used better/"name" producers on his solo stuff than The Stranglers have on their stuff post-Hugh. Their last album was produced by one of their road crew!

So, I'm giving Dreamtime another listen tonight and finding it to be really hitting the spot. The best of the late Hugh period records, IMO.

That one has declined in my estimation over the years whereas I still think "Aural Sculpture" is the best Epic album.

I like Aural Sculpture a lot, but I can't help but think how much better it could have been if they'd subbed in a couple of the B-sides for some of the lesser album tracks. 'In One Door' and 'Head On The Line' were easily good enough to be on the album proper, and maybe I'd take off 'Laughing' and 'Mad Hatter' ... Side One is great as is!

Aural Sculpture is a produced a little flat, but the songs themselves are still so goddamn great -- my favorite being "Ice Queen."

'Ice Queen' is great, yeah... I've always loved the way the brass comes bursting in on that! I think Sculpture was quite a fertile songwriting period for the band... not only did they have enough songs for a shitload of B-sides, but I'm quite sure one or two of the Dreamtime songs were written around the time of Sculpture... 'Shakin' Like a Leaf' was one, I think. 'You' dates from then, too, always felt that that was one that got away.

"Ice Queen" is the song I use to erase earworms when I need to clear my mind. All I do is play it internally and by the end whatever unbidden song is gone.

If "Aural Sculpture" is produced flat, "Dreamtime" is produced like a mainstream rock album and suffers for it. "Always The Sun", though, is as good as anything else they did. But talk about b-sides being better: "Norman Normal" and "Since You Went Away" are far better than "Shakin' Like A Leaf" and "Big In America", both which feel forced.

I like 'Instead of This' and 'Poisonality' so much more than anything from 10 that it isn't even funny. That album was a huge mistake for them to do, IMO, and life in the band seemed quite grim if Hugh's book is to be believed!

'Norman Normal'! That's the one I was thinking of as being another held over from Sculpture... I've always really liked both that one and 'Since You Went Away' ... I'm trying to remember off the top of my head what the other Dreamtime B-sides were... 'Dry Day'?

Oh shit, 'Hit Man'... Let's forget about that one!

Why the hell wasn't 'Was It You?' a single!? "WAS IT YEEEAAAAOOOOW!?!"

For no reason whatsoever, my top ten Stranglers tracks at this very moment.....what are yours?

1. "Five Minutes"
2. "Burning Up Time"
3. "Ice Queen"
4. "The Raven"
5. "Just Like Nothing on Earth"
6. "Norfolk Coast" (no, really .... it's excellent)
7. "Straighten Out"
8. "Hanging Around"
9. "Waltzinblack"
10. "Peaches"

In no particular order:

1. Peasant In The Big Shitty
2. Curfew
3. Toiler On The Sea
4. The Raven
5. Genetix
6. Four Horsemen
7. Tramp
8. Skin Deep
9. Was It You?
10. Instead Of This

This changes on a daily basis, though!

Simon Delic's brilliant revisit of The Stranglers' third album from 1978. It crawled deeper under my skin over the years, and eventually became my favorite by the Stranglers. What he said is spot-on, a cool mix of psych and post-punk elements that just barely predate work by Magazine and Joy Division.

http://www.backseatmafia.com/2016/02/19/not-forgotten-black-white-by-the-stranglers/

While doing a 1986 mix piece I realized Dreamtime is definitely worth a re-listen. Not so sure about Aural Sculpture but will go back to that too, and Feline.

Naturally, I love Black and White, it's probably the starkest record they ever made. Of course, they'd experiment further on The Raven, The Gospel According To The Meninblack and La Folie, but those records feel much less stark and stripped-down to me. The only other Stranglers LP that I can think of with such a starkness is, weirdly, Feline.

For a band that were, at the time, noted for anthems like 'Grip', 'No More Heroes', 'Peaches', 'Something Better Change' and so on, tracks like 'Curfew', 'In The Shadows' and particularly 'Enough Time' (which the band tried to re-learn not too long ago, and struggled with it!) are such a huge leap into uncommercial territory. They definitely weren't seeking to please anyone but themselves by this time, a path which they definitely continued down until Aural Sculpture. I get the impression from Hugh's book that he'd tired of making exploratory music by the mid '80s and suddenly wanted to be, well, a pop star.

I mean, christ, I think Hugh's solo album Wolf, which was recorded and released during a time when the tensions that ultimately led to Hugh leaving were starting to rot Hugh's and JJ's friendship/working relationship, has some fine songs on it when they're freed from their heavy-handed production. But, it's definitely a record which is commonly seen as Hugh trying to have success at any cost, consciously trying to forge a distinct solo identity that had more in common with what Phil Collins was doing than his exploratory work with Robert Williams on Nosferatu. It was Cornwell's chinos era.

Hugh's solo work up through "Hi Fi" is pretty damn good, with "Guilty" being particular top drawer and just damn FUN.

Guilty is a great record, agreed! Possibly his best solo record - a great collection of songs that are well performed and Laurie Latham's production is top notch!

Listened to "10" for the first time since 2001 - and doubtless will be my last time. Irredeemable, talk about losing the plot! The big standard synths, drumming and guitar licks are just so boring! "Out Of My Mind" is the only remotely interesting track.

I completely agree. A lot of hardcore fans blame Roy Thomas Baker's production, which to be fair is over the top and ill-fitting, and the fact they had to record the album twice after CBS thought the first recording (with future Oasis producer Owen Morris) was unsuitable. Personally, I just think they just didn't have a strong batch of material that time around. The one song I really like from that whole period is 'Instead of This', which was a B-side!

I'm seeing reports that Dave Greenfield has passed away and it was covid-related. :(

Sadly confirmed.

David Paul Greenfield (29/3/49-3/5/20) We are devastated to announce that Dave passed away last night from Covid 19. Fly straight DG xxx https://t.co/HmnAs1rERe pic.twitter.com/H2570s0cOb

— The Stranglers Site (@StranglersSite) May 4, 2020

Oh no!

This is awful news, remember him this way:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYkqLm9cM3Y

Terrible.

Aw, FFS. One of my all-time favourite musicians.

Damn, RIP. I play keyboards very badly. DG set the bar I am for ever trying to reach and come nowhere near.

Awful.

Hugh’s tribute on Twitter

I am very sorry to hear of the passing of Dave Greenfield. He was the difference between The Stranglers and every other punk band. His musical skill and gentle nature gave an interesting twist to the band. (1 of 2)

— Hugh Cornwell (@HughCornwell) May 4, 2020

After their initial run on A&M I kind of lost track/interest, consequently I am listening to The Raven today for the first time ever in memorium. What a weird, wonderful band, with Dave's circus of keyboards coloring everything. RIP.

Goddamn it! Dave's keys are so otherworldly, it shouldn't have worked but it did in spades.

The Raven is my favourite.

He was the difference between The Stranglers and every other punk band.

100%.

Wow, I'd love to be listening to "The Raven" for the first time ever!

I know, right? I own Black and White, and Aural Sculpture, and missed the stretch in between. Youtube is not doing the sound justice, I think I need to buy a physical copy.

Oh man 'The Gospel According To The Men In Black' is brilliant too.

I'm seeing reports that Jet Black has passed away, 84!

It was common knowledge that they were older than the other punks on the scene, nevertheless 84 is still boggling my mind.