The Wolf of Wall Street (new Scorsese)

do you think '90s pennystock brokers really knew the Freaks singalong?

Maybe these dudes, because, OMG, actual midgets and freaks and retards and shit, lol

The retard child discussion was something else, just incredibly uncomfortable

Needed some Flashpoint/Steel Wheels.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BdFqL09IUAAgsO7.jpg

Here's a story
Of a guy named Leo
Who was turning into Marty's favorite muse...

those are from when he was living on the streets right, before the seavers took him in?

middle row, far right <3

lol xp

thought this was kind of fascinating. sure it's a lot like Goodfellas but almost a "late style" twist on it.

the dual perspectives of the drive home from the country club struck me on this first viewing as a code for watching the movie as a whole. the little grace notes of melancholy (the one about Mozart sticks with me for a reason still inexplicable to me) is what really put this over the top.

also Leo's speeches were like a kind of corrupt secular gospel in their fire and brimstone.

^ I've been trying to figure out which scenes cannot be seen as purely being from Jordan's POV or retelling. So far out of the scenes mentioned above (FBI dude on the subway, slit wrists, etc.) the only one that doesn't really square in my mind is how Scorsese shoots the office assistant having her head shaved, the camera lingers a little too long on her during the scene and it's hard to reconcile w/ Jordan as amoral psychopath, you have to believe he's actually a sadist

to put it more pointedly: belfort is the fucking antichrist. the invocation of the "Buddhist Amish" seemed weighty in the sense that no one can imagine a way of life that involves moderation. the expectant faces at the end were kind of crushing.

yeah i'm feeling that.

I'm willing to say that Jordan sees those things too. he unwittingly reveals them to us. hints of what drives him a la Ahab (another secular "hero")

^ I've been trying to figure out which scenes cannot be seen as purely being from Jordan's POV or retelling. So far out of the scenes mentioned above (FBI dude on the subway, slit wrists, etc.) the only one that doesn't really square in my mind is how Scorsese shoots the office assistant having her head shaved, the camera lingers a little too long on her during the scene and it's hard to reconcile w/ Jordan as amoral psychopath, you have to believe he's actually a sadist

― 龜, Monday, January 6, 2014 7:46 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i kinda can't get with this, though i think you're right. i haven't really got into the writing about this yet but what i gather are the general charges, of the film's lack of moral stance, are frustrating because they forget the film's kinda basic constitution; adapted memoir, the voice and mind and perspective of the protagonist. & i feel like it's really loyal to this; there are even parts of its basic cinematic fabric - like, say, stretching leo between a 22 year old to the older, wearied, infomercial-rendered self - that it commits to & won't indulge in deviating from, not stopping to note the difference or dwell on the frame, the changes, &c. it's purposefully solipsistic, i think, & trusts us to do the rest. i'm kinda arguing against myself here because there are scenes in which this is probably demonstrably untrue, jordan is not there, but i think in limiting itself to jordan it kinda covers its bases; i don't need to make following the detective onto the subway a figment of jordan's imagination but it nonetheless feels part of his universe, rather than part of a panorama of clashing perspectives, &c. i feel okay about incorporating the secretary/head-shaving scene into this - leo's kinda distance from this scene, engineering it while leaving it, kinda aware of the chaos without being part of it - played to me like just a display of his acumen, his "to the manor born" relationship to the grunts he kinda drafted into his vision.

also apropos of nothing i feel like more frequently it is hard to deal with the complexities of film when there are such messy, instant narratives bouncing around from instant reactions. like i am starting to feel defensive of this film just because charges like its lack of puritanicalism feel so wrong. it's such a weird, messy film. like even the edit feels off, occasionally - the slightly-too-long scenes, sure, but just moments toward the start, its inelegant integration of source material (the shoe ad, &c). but like i think dayo said it's kinda made by its excess, every set piece is totally excisable but what makes the film good. also i really dug naomi in it, i don't know who played her but she was excellent. also jonah hill. also just make all movies just jonah hill & leo buddy comedies now. also all elbows-out male performances now are just shades of unavoidably-evident-hair-thinning-'80s-nicholson -ism, now, aren't they.

Good stuff schlump

finally put my finger on what the tone in this reminded me of: Nathaniel West novels.

i suppose it's easy to take a bullshit artist's scumbag twist on horatio alger and make it seem like Dante's inferno but I admire the vividness with which they did.

lack of moral compass complaints are mystifying. it's closer to being puritanical than not!

seemed weighty in the sense that no one can imagine a way of life that involves moderation. the expectant faces at the end were kind of crushing.

― ryan, Tuesday, January 7, 2014 7:51 AM (33 minutes ago) Bookmark

Yeah this is why I draw the parallel to the ending of Casino upthread, although now that I RC more, I think De Niro was out of the casino game by then and was a full time sports bookie. Think the framing was, that he had been in Vegas when it was fucking awesome, and now it's full of seniors

Like I'm trying to think if there's any more in the way Scorsese uses these shots of the hoi polloi other than to signal the huge gulf when compared to the hedonistic highs in both movies

IDK I was thinking earlier that Jordan probably sees absolutely nothing wrong with making NZ people sell pens, he's taken the advice of Rob and framed even his defeats as marks of true success, like a good salesman does... You can end the movie thinking he's pretty lucky that he lives in such a self-constructed bubble, or alternately feel extreme pity that he lives in such a self-constructed bubble

i feel like there are five hundred posts here & i just probably stepped on richard brody's toes regurgitating

- what about the weird back & forth crane shot across the floor

- also i think something else that was strange, seeing this, & again maybe relates to how closely i assume it hews to its source text, was the kinda sometimes strange, specific elasticity of its tension. there are scenes like leo, like-ryan-says-very-preacherishly, stepping up to the stage to retire, & then obviously reneging on it, & it does this in such a strangely arhythmic fashion; you clearly know this is one of the possibilities, so expect it, but it's circuitous, & at one point shorts its momentum to include that terrific interlude w/the single mom in the armani suit, or circles back to just indulge in the kinda jazzy leo performance for a minute longer. like so much of it seems so deliberately, strategically languorous, all while pretty much structuring itself vaguely like the clippy two hour film it could have been. i think this film is on the cover of the new film comment, i'd really love to read something good with scorsese talking about it because i feel like i need a way to just inject him into my understanding of this film. it has the dna of a kinda ray liotta narrated vice-logue we're familiar with but i guess cf ryan's late twist thing there's some deliberate logic to it i can't trace

This also kinda feels like Flaubert's A Sentimental Education too. Making the connection because it happens to be the only book I've read in the past 5 years xp

You can end the movie thinking he's pretty lucky that he lives in such a self-constructed bubble, or alternately feel extreme pity that he lives in such a self-constructed bubble

― 龜, Tuesday, January 7, 2014 8:32 AM (39 seconds ago) Bookmark

I mean the real Jordan Belfort probably thinks it's fucking awesome that this is the second movie that's been made about him & I bet he absolutely misses completely all the hints & ways that Scorsese maybe, might a little bit be skeptical of the enterprise... He just mentally puts himself in all the orgy scenes

lack of moral compass complaints are mystifying. it's closer to being puritanical than not!

ha hm idk - i sorta feel like it's the breaking bad criticism of why don't we see how bad meth is, but it just has other concerns; it obviously doesn't get into penny shares, &c. i don't know that i think it is or isn't puritanical, so much as it just isn't concerned with spoonfeeding you what you can deduce, better attempts to just situate you in the milieu you don't have access to, &c

This also kinda feels like Flaubert's A Sentimental Education too. Making the connection because it happens to be the only book I've read in the past 5 years xp

― 龜, Monday, January 6, 2014 8:32 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol

Like even acknowledging that he wrecked his Zonda was conveyed in a "Holy shit The_Hangover_Part_3" type tone & without any sort of moral reckoning

that interlude with the single mom was amazing.

maybe im way out of left field but i thought there was real compassion in the final shot

i don't know that i think it is or isn't puritanical, so much as it just isn't concerned with spoonfeeding you what you can deduce, better attempts to just situate you in the milieu you don't have access to, &c

yes there's a blessed lack of finger wagging.

if only there was a blessed lack of dick waving right fellas haha j/k

this movie takes a very much cake and eat it too approach to morality and im okay with that and consider people who arent to be my mortal enemies

Yo man you want some cake

that interlude with the single mom was amazing.

film is just made of those kinda digressions, i think. i remember being frustrated with the master, which was admirably panoramic but then sorta hemmed itself in by occasionally bending back to give a shit about joaquin phoenix's ex-girlfriend or whatever, & this was a more satisfying ratio of like ... core & fringe, to me, like every yacht interlude or joanna lumley scene or whatever was just pretty satisfying to be in, & a perverse part of me would prefer a non-narrative compendium of just this without explanatory context.

& yeah re: final shot, i think that's true, & probably under pressure adds some weight to our read of jordan, right? like those scenes - the headshaving scene included, the retirement scene, him & his pals at the diner - seem to rotate around that kinda connection hunger.

nb a short line i really liked in this was the part in which staff are being interviewed & a guy is asked about his name & he says it's my name

Yo man you want some cake

― 龜, Monday, January 6, 2014 7:43 PM (40 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i always want cake why do some people hate cake so much doesnt make any sense

the scene where he backs out of the deal with the feds cracks me up because it's framed as this vision quest epic fight against all odds but clearly we're meant to think "christ this dude is a fucking idiot"

Yeah the way he psychs himself up to have it on his yacht + have two models + lobster on deck

naw i'm talking about the speech near the end but that scene too. the yacht scene is top 3 in the film for sure.

will take a crumb of key lime pie over a whole cake of anything

O yeah. The part of the movie where he sells himself to himself xp

his life was meaningless w/o his awesome party corporation and they were all so sad to see him go

Man once the feds see my yacht they're gonna let me go. It's got a helicopter on the top

what's weird about reneging on the deal it is that it's a totally uncynical move! like "no you can't stop me from swindling people because I truly believe in the gospel of prosperity." it IS his religion!

he loves it

Also <35mm nerd> read that they were gonna shoot this in digital but ended up using mostly film. The scenes in the ocean + some others with CGI felt too fake interweaved with the lushness of real film </35mm nerd>

its funny cause walking away w a slap on the wrist wouldve been the ultimate victory instead he goes to jail just to spend another year or w/e with his beloved scam

~75% film, 23% hd digital, 2% weird shitty .rm clip of '90s shoe advert

its funny cause walking away w a slap on the wrist wouldve been the ultimate victory instead he goes to jail just to spend another year or w/e with his beloved scam

― lag∞n, Tuesday, January 7, 2014 8:50 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

Yeah he scams himself basically

re: schlump's otm comments about the odd structure and rhythm of this, i do recall the editor saying it was difficult to pare it down from 4 hours. would be very curious about that cut (though i fear it may coalesce into a more standard feeling movie).

also just make all movies just jonah hill & leo buddy comedies now.

yes

also all elbows-out male performances now are just shades of unavoidably-evident-hair-thinning-'80s-nicholson -ism, now, aren't they.

otm

I'LL BE FRESH AS HELL IF THE FEDS WATCHIN

P Labuza on L'boxd is the first person I've read who makes a retrospectively obvious point that the quaaludes sequence is both verbally and physically an hommage to Jerry Lewis.

also Richard Brody wrote today that Chaplin's talkies surpassed his silents, so feel free to ignore, he's raving.

I'LL BE FRESH AS HELL IF THE FEDS WATCHIN

― Beatrix Kiddo (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, January 7, 2014 9:42 AM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark

This is actually the most otm comment about this movie

this was a more satisfying ratio of like ... core & fringe, to me, like every yacht interlude or joanna lumley scene or whatever was just pretty satisfying to be in, & a perverse part of me would prefer a non-narrative compendium of just this without explanatory context.

The Wolf of Wall Street starring James Franco, dir. Harmony Korine.

Armond less lacerating than usual, mocks Leo's pubescent voice

http://cityarts.info/2013/12/21/secret-lives-of-walter-marty/

this is badly proofread!