"Baby It's Cold Outside" -- Holiday Song? Rapey?

Thanks, kate

yes, thank you

seems like the same superficial lyric-reading seen with the "blurred lines" controversy is characteristic of the opposition to this song. to me at least it seems like "say, what's in that drink?" (probably the most eyebrow-raising line here) isn't an accusation of drugging but rather a metaphor for the guy's charm. which it must be said, isn't all that strong, because it doesn't seem like in the end she explicitly stays. but if trying to get a girl to change her mind about sleeping with you is rapey then i think we're all in trouble

the most troubling part might be the persistence of the guy, but you know, it's a song -- it has to last a few minutes.

like "blurred lines", someone with certain experiences is well within her/his rights to interpret the song less forgivingly, but it's another thing i think to make assumptions about the writer's intentions

this song is a target commercial for zoey deschanel to sell sweaters
Choir's 'cold outside' is much better, is not a holiday song, and is mopey, not rapey, and stiv bators version is good, too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8uTMVyhPmE

lol at ppl insisting 'it's not a holiday song, it's a winter song', like you routinely hear this and 'jingle bells' and 'winter wonderland' in february. this shit ain't schubert.

Oh noes, I am a Cis-Het dude being made to think about rape for the whole sixth time in my life, DEAR GOD MAKE IT STOP. Why don't they ever shut up.

― The Manics: Very Welsh, Much Working Class, So cialist (Branwell Bell), Tuesday, December 24, 2013 5:47 PM (1 hour ago)

you should try pairing this with your "i suppose now you guys will make this thread turn into a clusterfuck" schtick for full effect pro tip

Anyway, "Santa Baby" is far more ethically grating.

^^^

lol balls

this song is a target commercial for zoey deschanel to sell sweaters

this song existed before zooey deschanel or target

witch doctor wasn't originally an alvin and the chipmunks song, but that's what it is now.

rob delaney ‏@robdelaney 2h

Until it was outlawed in 1986, the “Baby It’s Cold Outside” defense was successfully used in cases involving countless atrocities.

The drink is the excuse. The drink is the shield someone gets to hold up in front of them to protect from criticism. And it’s not just used in these sort of romantic situations. I’ve heard it in many investigation type scenes where the stoolpigeon character is giving up bits of information they’re supposed to be protecting, in screwball comedies where someone is making a fool of themselves, and, yes, in romantic movies where someone is experiencing feelings they are not supposed to have.

I understand the usage that's being described, but I can't think of any examples off the top of my head. Was it actually all that common in old movies?

idk that I would call this song a "carol"

nb i don't actually know what carol means

i don't remember it in any old movies but i vaguely remember it as a trope in old sitcoms that nick + nite played in the 90s.

"Oh my, I guess the champagne bubbles must be going to my head"

"The answer is no."

it's not hard for me to read the woman's lines as ways to get the persistent man to back off without being impolite. the "what will my family/neighbors think" is an appeal for him to protect her honor and his own. i think it's possible to interpret this as "i like you and dont want to offend you, but i really do want to leave tonight." for that and other reasons i have a pretty unforgiving interpretation of this song.

so why does she sing "baby it's cold outside" in harmony with him at the end?

male songwriter wants his happy ending

also:
“I ought to say no, no, no sir, well, at least I’m gonna say that I tried.”

male songwriter wants his happy ending

― rhyme heals all goons (m bison), Tuesday, December 24, 2013 2:46 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oh come on, if you're just going to trump everything with "well a man wrote it so that's the way the man wants it" then there's no point in close-reading the song at all

that's when she realizes how cold and cruel the world is xxxp

im not saying she's not conflicted, im just not swayed by the "she's playing it coy" line of defense. he's not listening to her at all, so its not even really a back and forth; its two concurrent monologues.

that's the narrative the songwriter is pushing tho! due to currents socials mores she will resist but she really wants to stay with you, dont take no for answer, etc. she will come around eventually if u tell her how horny she makes you.

quintessential ilx thread, kudos everyone

But he's not taking that next step into actually doing something coercive. Like what is actually wrong with him continuing to plead with her? I feel like you're giving the woman in the song way too little credit.

like the last part before she joins him for ~harmony~ is, guess i'll have a smoke, can i borrow your coat? I'm audi 5. during which he's like u could die also i will have blue balls quit holding out BABY ITS COLLLLLLLD OUUUUUUTSIIIIIIE

if someone believes all male-female sexual relationships inevitably are tainted by a quantity of coercion than there's no reason this song would be different + certainly a member of the ruling patriarchy would try to downplay anything that might make explicit said coercion. in that sense this song is much more problematic as it not only attempts to normalize male-female sexuality but normalize a particularly brazen manifestation of it - the coercive alcohol-aided seduction of the female object. in the end her own objections are utterly obliterated as she joins in harmony w/ the male's initial reading of the text - that she really should stay bc it's cold outside.

if it's supposed to be totally consensual the writer does a rly shitty job of establishing that is all im saying

in what context can any piece of culture ever successfully resist the complete + total annihilating vision of the patriarchy? i guess we can locate some pockets of resistance but probably not playing over the soundsystem of department stores over the shopping holiday season. perfect opportunity to drill the values + mores of rape culture into consumer sheep brains.

A+

otoh the female is not even given voice to question that "the night time is the right time to rock the night away" -- her consent is beyond assumed

the fuck yall talking about

Y'all are overlooking the fact that there is nothing in the song that specifies the sex of the protagonists by the way. If it's "rapey" then it's the performances that make it so, not the song.

'rudolph the red-nosed reindeer': excuses bullying, promotes unfair hiring practices

we're finally thru the looking glass: xmas songs are mostly bullshit

Y'all are overlooking the fact that there is nothing in the song that specifies the sex of the protagonists by the way. If it's "rapey" then it's the performances that make it so, not the song.

― everything, Tuesday, December 24, 2013 3:00 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I was actually going to post a blog comment that noted that in the original film in which the song appeared, it is sung twice, once with male pleading with female, and once with female pleading with male

I had to sing this (amongst others, me and one other guy doing the male part and then about eight women doing the female part) at our work fundraising carols (roaming floor to floor, annoying people and collecting money), and apart from being dubious it was very hard to sing if you only have a passing knowledge of it. And an odd song to sing at work although it kinda makes sense as something bosses say to their staff in law firms?

There, that is my contribution to this thread.

really dislike this song for musical reasons. Plus tom jones.

next year let's do "I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus"

slut-shaming, imo.

I was actually going to post a blog comment that noted that in the original film in which the song appeared, it is sung twice, once with male pleading with female, and once with female pleading with male

And, since she was brought up in this thread, Zooey Deschanel and M. Ward do the "female pleading" version on the She & Him Christmas record.

Oh noes, I am a Cis-Het dude being made to think about rape for the whole sixth time in my life, DEAR GOD MAKE IT STOP. Why don't they ever shut up.
― The Manics: Very Welsh, Much Working Class, So cialist (Branwell Bell), Tuesday, December 24, 2013 5:47 PM (1 hour ago)

I know I am going to be annoyed by getting trolled by this bullshit tomorrow, but late + whiskey says that I can't let go of how furious this comment makes me. Your assumption that Cis-Het status makes people somehow immune to rape, esp in relation to the use of drugs/alcohol, just so you can make a dumb point about a song and clown me? Well, you don't know me, and maybe you should hold yourself to the same standard you just tried to hang on me. Not only does it happen, but it happened to me twice. Thanks for making me think about this shit on Christmas Eve you prick.

Side note: no, I don't want to fucking talk about it, no offense to the rest of you, but at least wrt to me and specifics, I'm not talking about this again on ilx.

On a more thread related note, I heard that she and him version today and wow it's awful

gaaaah this thread, holy shit O_o

aaaaanyhoo *steps around flaming turds*

i like the ella/louis version that Mordy mentioned upthread

also don't kill me but the Bette Midler / James Caan version in For the Boys goes a long way with me too

dino's version is rapey-er to me bcz of his whole boozehound persona ... same with buble who just creeps me out generally

kinda depends on delivery for me, i guess?

how do we feel abt sigourney + buster poindexter

http://touch.dailymotion.com/video/xbu0ht_baby-it-s-cold-outside-sigourney-w_fun

*goes back to Dr Who christmas reruns*

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

why was this all twitter talked about this year?

I think you're confusing this song with Blurred Lines.