Do you practice with a metronome?

I fuck with a metronome.

i mean "fuck with" in terms of "i do that", not the other thing that that obviously looks like.

There was recently a tempest in the internet teapot about this question

oh?

You didn't see? A famous jazz teacher, Mike Longo, advised that one should never practice with a metronome and then another famous jazz instructor, Hal Galper, reposted it and said he agreed 100%.

I mean they might not be quite as well known as Richard Davis but still

sorry, i still don't get it

Here is the original article http://www.mikelongojazz.com/should-you-practice-jazz-with-a-metronome/

You can also go to Hal Galper's Facebook page for more discussion.

Basically I think the idea is that if you ALWAYS practice with a metronome or if you don't think of interesting ways to practice with it you might end up playing stiffly saw well as not actually internalizing the time. They are taking the extreme position for purposes rhetorical or otherwise that one should NEVER practice with a metronome.

I believe the purpose was muscular coordination however and admit that the metronome was of some value in that regard.

https://m.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=116975761721062&story_fbid=511988358886465

ugh such bullshit.

That reminds me of something somebody told me David Liebman once said.

Something to the effect of "What is this feeling good %#&$&@€ ?

nothing helped my time more than, if not actually playing to a metronome per se, playing along to programmed beats (and programming them), then experimenting with making the perfect subdivisions less perfect (on the computer and on the drums).

i agree that the swing/magic is in the spaces inbetween the notes, but it's so important to have a solid quarter note pulse internalized. if you have that you have more control over pushing the beat or making it feel laid back, swinging, not swinging, etc. It's easy to adjust to other people's pulses and go with the group, it's not as easy to be the strong one and lay down a good-feeling pulse.

xp haha

here's a fun example of not being limited by the click (starts simple, gets crazy around 3 minutes in): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcC53u9qe78

and of course jazz groups don't play with metronomic time, nor should they, but the idea that practicing to a consistent pulse can be bad for your playing is just ridic to me.

Think the claim is that you should be providing that pulse yourself, but yeah, I agree.

maybe another way to look at it is that those jazz legends that the longo thing references were all great musicians who had lots of opportunity to play with other great musicians, which is great for developing pulse & pocket. if that's not your situation, then a metronome is a pretty great substitute. i know i just wrote great a lot.

Ha, I was going to post the exact same sentiment in different words: If I was playing in Dizzy's band every night I might not need to play with a metronome either.

jordan i think you are otm here

"You didn't see? A famous jazz teacher, Mike Longo, advised that one should never practice with a metronome and then another famous jazz instructor, Hal Galper, reposted it and said he agreed 100%."

I think that's a bit much unless you are already a pretty advanced musician. If you don't test it against anything how the heck do you even know if you are getting it right? Eh...some jazz dudes totally like to get all Obi Wan Kenobi.

This was a pretty cool metronome exercise I came across that I found useful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X1fhVLVF_4

I need to get back at it, but I was learning to play some rudiments and patterns with drum sticks on a practice pad, mostly to get better for overdubbing percussion. When I was doing that a few times a week, I found that I could lock down on the drums way tight as that pulse was so loud in my head.

I think it surely depends on the genre. Jazz, I get it, yeah, metronomes kill that swing, but if you're working with clean minimalist synth stuff, it is essential.

I'm in a band that started out all samples and synths and drum machines and got used to the static, solid pulse of machine time. Then we got a drummer. And everything changed. He speeds up, slows down, acts like fuckin Fill Collins, and it really altered the whole angle of what we do. Wether for better or worse I'm still not sure tbh.

sounds like for worse :(

lol @ "Fill Collins" -- are his fills like the ones in "In the Air Tonight" because, ugh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr.Fill

Also, somebody told me about that Victor Wooten thing but I had never seen it, thanks.

Never bothered with a metronome, but playing along to Neu or Can is far more fun.

Think that was another recommendation from those guys

That's what I do and it's really fun!! But practicing with my metronome has been useful for getting through those rough spots where I feel like I'm gonna lose it. The metronome is encouraging, which I think has value as a learning tool. Maybe these dudes forget what it's like to be a beginner.

That VW thing in five is hard because the pattern will take five bars to work itself out and tag up again, so say you are playing a twelve bar form, you have to play it five times through before the first downbeat is on a click again. Ten bar form would be easier I guess.

I guess you could break it down again and see what kind of four bar or even two pattern there was at any given point.

http://ericwbarfield.com/blog/2014/2/17/20-reasons-why-you-should-use-a-metronome

So apparently guitarist Wayne Krantz has developed an app called the Humanome, which serves up imperfect time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUHEPmg0sPo

^Same guy who told me the thing about David Leibman upthread.

I practice with a metronome pretty regularly when I do studies

When recording musicians in situations where a human performance is desirable but a steady tempo is necessary, I typically feed the snare through a dotted-eighth delay, only to the drummer, so he has an syncopated echo of themself as they keep time. It works remarkably well and allows for the tempo to stay steady but still breathe

Oh obv that is in lieu of a metronome and/or click track. Might be fun to try it as a practice tool too

Now that I'm heavy into bluegrass/flatpicking, I've started doing a lot more practice with a metronome, and I've found it really helps not only my timing but my feel, which is sort of contrary to the canard about "metronomic" playing. In any case the music I'm trying to learn is just too unforgiving of timing mistakes to not practice with one.

Do synth wizards practice with metro gnomes? (ducks)

I typically feed the snare through a dotted-eighth delay, only to the drummer, so he has an syncopated echo of themself as they keep time.

Wow, this is brilliant (although I wonder how it works for busier snare patterns).

I like to practice jazz drumming either with a metronome, or against a track/beat with programmed drums. I think it's always good to have a reality check on your time and be conscious of those moments where you rush or drag certain patterns, and don't really believe it can ever hurt someone's feel. Although keeping great time *without* a metronome is its own skill that's not exactly the same as playing with one (and for me is a lot about confidence/mindset?).