this song is a beating
― rip van wanko, Monday, 23 December 2013 23:16 (ten years ago) link
I remember that time I took a Women's Studies 101 class and had no concept of the social mores of mid-century of America.
― Your Favorite Album in the Cutout Bin, Monday, 23 December 2013 23:19 (ten years ago) link
To His Coy Mistress: Rapey?
― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Monday, 23 December 2013 23:23 (ten years ago) link
it is a standard that is sung by many people and as such can be played both ways
― if you're happy and you know it, it's false consciousness (c sharp major), Monday, 23 December 2013 23:29 (ten years ago) link
Whether it's a holiday song or not is incidental, but it is wicked rapey.
― Alex in NYC, Monday, 23 December 2013 23:39 (ten years ago) link
flirty, morelike.
― how's life, Monday, 23 December 2013 23:44 (ten years ago) link
What if I acknowledge that is probably is a bit rapey, but won't acknowledge "rapey" as being a word?
― MarkoP, Tuesday, 24 December 2013 00:52 (ten years ago) link
thought this was easily the highlight of snl the other night - http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/baby-its-cold-outside/n44614/
― balls, Tuesday, 24 December 2013 00:53 (ten years ago) link
I love this song, hate the word "rapey."
― Beatrix Kiddo (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 01:22 (ten years ago) link
^ otm
― Mmm yes hello (crüt), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 01:34 (ten years ago) link
http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/7c/aa/e0/7caae0115523c6b3cfc4b9848c24e1f3.jpg
Snowman wants to get cozy (building around the corner has this on their stoop.)
― ian, Tuesday, 24 December 2013 16:20 (ten years ago) link
― Beatrix Kiddo (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 01:22 (14 hours ago) Permalink
― Mmm yes hello (crüt), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 01:34 (14 hours ago) Permalink
yes, please let this word die with 2013
― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 16:21 (ten years ago) link
I did vote for it as best Xmas song ever. Obviously morally speaking it is one rung below hitler.
― Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 24 December 2013 16:25 (ten years ago) link
Kinda curious as to what prompts the hatred of the word "rapey" but to ask why would probably bring down clusterfuck, right?
― The Manics: Very Welsh, Much Working Class, So cialist (Branwell Bell), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 16:27 (ten years ago) link
My 1st exposure to this song was the tom Jones cerys Matthews version and my instinctive reaction was UGH no means no tom Jones u fucking creep, but that's tom Jones
― sad banta (wins), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 16:31 (ten years ago) link
xp(1) trivializing to actual rape(2) implies that there's this middle-ground "rape-ish" category that's not rape but rape-like(3) just generally smacks of awful blogspeak
― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 16:32 (ten years ago) link
I love that this was just a throwaway number for performing to houseguests for about five years, before Loesser thought to record it properly
― Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 24 December 2013 16:33 (ten years ago) link
OK, gotcha. Thanks for the reply, Hurting.
― The Manics: Very Welsh, Much Working Class, So cialist (Branwell Bell), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 16:34 (ten years ago) link
i roofied your driiiiink
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 16:39 (ten years ago) link
Dean Martin version works
― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 16:41 (ten years ago) link
really guys, sometimes "Don't go" is not a fucking felony
― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 16:42 (ten years ago) link
ty
― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 16:43 (ten years ago) link
This song did inspire one of the great album titles - Baby, It's Cold Inside by The Fun Years
― sad banta (wins), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 16:43 (ten years ago) link
Xp well that's the prob with the word "rapey", like I wouldn't draw any equivalence w rape necessarily but persistently not taking no for an answer comes off as fuckin douchey (if its tom jones)
― sad banta (wins), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 16:46 (ten years ago) link
Michael Buble is the litmus test
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 16:48 (ten years ago) link
Bauble is always douchey no
― sad banta (wins), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 16:49 (ten years ago) link
Syria, kinda genocidey
― tbd (Eazy), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 16:49 (ten years ago) link
yeah it's true, dude could make jingle bells sound gross
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 16:51 (ten years ago) link
― sad banta (wins), Tuesday, December 24, 2013 11:46 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Honestly I think whether the person "not taking no for an answer" is being "douchey" or "rapey" or "persistent" is a call for the person saying no to make, not you.
― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 16:56 (ten years ago) link
i.e. in each respective situation
― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 16:57 (ten years ago) link
It's one of those rare duets, maybe less rare in musicals than pop music, where the two singers are actually arguing or at least opposing each other.
― tbd (Eazy), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 16:58 (ten years ago) link
Hurting these are fictional ppl I get to make the call
― sad banta (wins), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 17:01 (ten years ago) link
And maybe it comes down to how its played, I will lol forever at that movie where dude spends the entire running time wheedling to get doris day to put out, because doris day is awesome
― sad banta (wins), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 17:04 (ten years ago) link
'lol baby it's cold outside is rapey' is kinda the xmas carol version of 'lol my fave xmas movie is die hard'
― balls, Tuesday, 24 December 2013 17:05 (ten years ago) link
1) It's not a "Holiday Song" by any stretch of the imagination. It's a winter song, and the only holiday in it is the slow cooption of anything and everything wintery by Winter Consumerfest.
2) "Rapey". Although I can understand the problems with this specific word, I do think that there is the need for a non-dismissive, non-cutesy, non-trivialising word for saying "things which are not (yet) rape in a legal or moral sense, but are still: similar to rape; contributing to rape culture; or disregarding consent and agency in a way which indicates rape is a distinct possibility."
With this song, written as words on a page, it is almost impossible to tell whether it is "rapey" or not. So much depends on the context (is this an artefact of 1950s morality, or a modern re-reading of something which was then innocent but is now not innocent, or an entirely modern setting which is completely suspect) and the delivery. I have certainly heard versions where it's almost entirely clear to the listener that both parties are engaging in mutually consensual flirtation. I've heard versions where I pretty much want to call the cops to report a rape in progress. Language has changed since the song was written ("Roofies in the drink" is an almost entirely modern construction) and social mores have changed to the point where I'm not even sure *I* can get into the mindset of the woman ("mouse"?) in the song.
However, the whole process of examining the song, the ambivalent lyrics, pouring over every ambiguous line with a microscope to determine if she really is "totally up for it and just being coy because women in the 1950s are not allowed to express sexual desire" or "being drugged or pressured into sex" due clues in their tone and body language - that *process* makes me feel very uncomfortable, and to me, feels "rapey" in the "sustaining or contributing to rape culture" sense. I am prepared to accept that there may be a totally innocent, flirty 1950s reading of the song, where "what's in this drink?" just means "is this vermouth or gin?" But sorting through the reactions of a woman who says "I said no" one moment and "what is this magic spell..." the next and trying to work out consent from those cues, as opposed to just asking "are you into it?" - that is exactly describing rape culture. So I'm voting "rapey".
― The Manics: Very Welsh, Much Working Class, So cialist (Branwell Bell), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 17:17 (ten years ago) link
yep this is my least favorite christmas controversy for like 6 years running now
― Wendy Carlos Williams (jjjusten), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 17:24 (ten years ago) link
intersting
― From the Album No Baby for You! (Matt P), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 17:25 (ten years ago) link
This is the first Christmas anyone has even asked me the question.
― The Manics: Very Welsh, Much Working Class, So cialist (Branwell Bell), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 17:26 (ten years ago) link
I think the fact that the girl at the end cheerfully says "baby it's cold outside," (i.e. "ok, I'll stay,") makes it pretty obvious that the song is not "rapey," not to mention that most of her protests are like "what will the neighbors think" kind of stuff. Even having to read it this closely to make the point makes me die inside a little.
― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 17:31 (ten years ago) link
die hard is a fine christmas movie.
― how's life, Tuesday, 24 December 2013 17:32 (ten years ago) link
Taking an ILX question at face value, and answering it seriously, when everyone else is ~so over~ ever having to think about the issue ever again, what on earth was I thinking.
― The Manics: Very Welsh, Much Working Class, So cialist (Branwell Bell), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 17:36 (ten years ago) link
Just kidding! I missed you guys.
― The Manics: Very Welsh, Much Working Class, So cialist (Branwell Bell), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 17:37 (ten years ago) link
Actually, no, I think reading Godel Escher Bach is starting to look a hell of a lot more appealing right now, yes, I really am bored enough to try and catch up the chapter I missed yesterday.
― The Manics: Very Welsh, Much Working Class, So cialist (Branwell Bell), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 17:38 (ten years ago) link
All winter songs become holiday songs by association xxxxpost
― Sir Lord Baltimora (Myonga Vön Bontee), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 17:40 (ten years ago) link
hey i cant help it that i am apparently at the cutting edge of "people finding things to complain about" culture
― Wendy Carlos Williams (jjjusten), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 17:41 (ten years ago) link
generally agree with bb above. i don't know this song, don't have a problem with "rapey" unless men are using it (something "the lady doth protest too much" about it) and feel like it's good shorthand for gendered power dynamics because it actually has some leverage in territory that usually doesn't and gets attention, get annoyed when other men get annoyed at "rapey" and huff about "the legal definition of rape" rmde
― From the Album No Baby for You! (Matt P), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 17:41 (ten years ago) link
you know what? dudes getting reactionary and butthurt about this stuff is sooo fucking lame. you all should man up and find something constructive to do with your time.
― From the Album No Baby for You! (Matt P), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 17:42 (ten years ago) link
Oh noes, I am a Cis-Het dude being made to think about rape for the whole sixth time in my life, DEAR GOD MAKE IT STOP. Why don't they ever shut up.
― The Manics: Very Welsh, Much Working Class, So cialist (Branwell Bell), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 17:47 (ten years ago) link
haha exactly
― From the Album No Baby for You! (Matt P), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 17:47 (ten years ago) link
or "this harmless song does not deserve to be destroyed by u politically correct feminists, i'm liberal but we can't go too far this is madness" guess what there's a lot more than your harmless joyful song that can and ought to be talked about i hope you're up for it, if not then just ignore cuz shutting it down with mansputtering is pathetic at best
― From the Album No Baby for You! (Matt P), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 17:52 (ten years ago) link
'O Canada' every morning in school = years of conditioning in how to say 'la croix'.
― jmm, Wednesday, 30 October 2019 02:38 (four years ago) link
i've never heard this song once in my entire life
― billstevejim, Wednesday, 30 October 2019 05:52 (four years ago) link
Anyway, I might take issue with the pronunciation of "La Croix" but I have been exposed to francophone pronunciations of "Pachelbel" and "Pinetrail" (by someone from France) over the past week and I'm not sure whether Americans have anything to worry about.
'Tupperware' is my personal favourite:
https://forvo.com/search/Tupperware/fr/
Incidentally (re: 'Pinetrail'), a 'pine' is a dick.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 30 October 2019 08:55 (four years ago) link
people who ask for a 'Bom-BAR-dee-ey' beer in the pub
― doorstep jetski (dog latin), Wednesday, 30 October 2019 10:51 (four years ago) link
This conversation is not a holiday conversation.
― Pauline Male (Eric H.), Wednesday, 30 October 2019 12:18 (four years ago) link
if I could snap my fingers and have everything associated with this song erased from the planet I would
sorry John Legend
― frogbs, Wednesday, 30 October 2019 12:23 (four years ago) link
Sorry straight America, it's not a very charming song.
― Pauline Male (Eric H.), Wednesday, 30 October 2019 12:56 (four years ago) link
from here on out, everytime somebody says they've never heard the song I am posting the Ray Charles/Betty Carter YouTube. Their version is a good song! It is absolutely problematic.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5Rbkcxiibw
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Wednesday, 30 October 2019 18:26 (four years ago) link
The Times recommends this version with Ms Piggy ad Nureyev which the description calls "Miss Piggy Geting(sic) Lucky in the Steam Room"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EJ1SBAO1HU
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Wednesday, 30 October 2019 18:40 (four years ago) link
also via the NYT story, here's a crazy detail about the song's role in the "inspiration of Al Qaeda":https://qz.com/1491525/baby-its-cold-outside-and-the-rise-of-islamic-fundamentalism
“The dance hall convulsed to the tunes on the gramophone and was full of bounding feet and seductive legs,” Qutb wrote later. “Arms circled waists, lips met lips, chests met chests, and the atmosphere was full of passion.”
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Wednesday, 30 October 2019 18:43 (four years ago) link
Wow @ "Tupperware"
― No language just sound (Sund4r), Wednesday, 30 October 2019 18:44 (four years ago) link
That Ray Charles/Betty Carter version is actually a good example of the song being performed as a "playful" exchange between two equals, and not at all like she is being coerced or otherwise stuck on the weaker side of a power dynamic.
― dracula et son fils (morrisp), Wednesday, 30 October 2019 18:48 (four years ago) link
Love the German: Too-pah-Vaw-ray
― jmm, Wednesday, 30 October 2019 18:56 (four years ago) link
that Ray Charles/Betty Carter rendition is wonderful, its a shame to discover that this song did 9/11
― “Hakuna Matata,” a nihilist philosophy (One Eye Open), Wednesday, 30 October 2019 19:03 (four years ago) link
https://i.imgur.com/pi8ssLF.jpg
― Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Friday, 8 November 2019 19:04 (four years ago) link
Holiday Song? Killy?
― temporarily embarrassed thousandaire (Eric H.), Friday, 8 November 2019 19:08 (four years ago) link
there should be more psychotic Christmas songs
― Jordan Pickford LOLverdrive (Neanderthal), Friday, 8 November 2019 19:09 (four years ago) link
city sidewalks, bloody sidewalks
this is Satan's big day
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 8 November 2019 19:10 (four years ago) link
xxxp That meme would also work well with an iconic Duvall/Nicholson still from The Shining.
― quinn morgendorffer stan account (morrisp), Friday, 8 November 2019 19:11 (four years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz5kHC0g9HQ
― temporarily embarrassed thousandaire (Eric H.), Friday, 8 November 2019 19:15 (four years ago) link
Simply... having... a murderous Christmastime
― tempted by the fruit of your mother (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 8 November 2019 19:16 (four years ago) link
Last ChristmasI cut out your heart
― Jordan Pickford LOLverdrive (Neanderthal), Friday, 8 November 2019 19:21 (four years ago) link
Jingle Hell
― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Friday, 8 November 2019 19:26 (four years ago) link
All I want for Christmas is your two front teeth
― temporarily embarrassed thousandaire (Eric H.), Friday, 8 November 2019 20:14 (four years ago) link
I fell for you last Christmas When I saw you from afarI'd like to cut your boobs offAnd keep them in a jar.
― Life is a meaningless nightmare of suffering...save string (Chinaski), Friday, 8 November 2019 20:16 (four years ago) link
https://images.genius.com/3b3335e86b69365e407ffae2370c161d.600x600x1.jpg
― a bevy of supermodels, musicians and Lena Dunham (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 8 November 2019 20:17 (four years ago) link
silent night, deadly night has nothing on that album cover
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 8 November 2019 20:32 (four years ago) link
I saw Mommy disemboweling Santa Claus...
― tempted by the fruit of your mother (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 8 November 2019 22:01 (four years ago) link
she didn't hear me creep down the stairs to take a peekand now I'm really fucked up and I can't get back to sleep
― Jordan Pickford LOLverdrive (Neanderthal), Friday, 8 November 2019 22:07 (four years ago) link
I fixed #BabyItsColdOutside.In this version she ignores his entreaties to stay and heads on out. Turns out there WERE no cabs to be had out there, it WAS up to her knees out there, and her frozen body is found the next day.Everybody happy now?— Just Bill (@WilliamAder) November 4, 2019
― No language just sound (Sund4r), Saturday, 9 November 2019 05:00 (four years ago) link
Ted Bundy possibly
― Jordan Pickford LOLverdrive (Neanderthal), Saturday, 9 November 2019 05:02 (four years ago) link
xp No offense, I'm happy now.
― temporarily embarrassed thousandaire (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 November 2019 14:44 (four years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVz6TCT5Bjs
It's back, sped up and inverted. Feliz Navidad!
― the body of a spider... (scampering alpaca), Tuesday, 20 October 2020 20:11 (three years ago) link
^That's from 2012... but I bet we will get a "clever" COVID-themed rewrite from someone this year.
― bagel in the streets, donut in the sheets (morrisp), Tuesday, 20 October 2020 21:32 (three years ago) link
I really can't stayPlease stay six feet away
― eat my room temperature ass (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 20 October 2020 21:39 (three years ago) link
My money is on that family that did the pajama rap. I know the husband did his "hilarious" take a few years ago, but surely this is low hanging fruit for them.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 20 October 2020 21:49 (three years ago) link
D'oh! Saw news of candy cane vinyl with a link to this song, so thought it was a new release. Haven't been following them for years (obv).
― the body of a spider... (scampering alpaca), Tuesday, 20 October 2020 22:28 (three years ago) link
Baby it's Cov'd Outside
fucker writes itself
― Notes on "Scamp" (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 20 October 2020 23:02 (three years ago) link
Say what's in this drink?
Hydroxychloroquine
― I wish you luck with a capital F (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 20 October 2020 23:56 (three years ago) link
Is it me, or does this thread revive seem to come earlier every year?
― enochroot, Wednesday, 21 October 2020 00:51 (three years ago) link
Please pull down your mask (Why would you even ask?)There’s no need to hide (It’s not about pride)I’ll stay by your side (“...If I got pneumonia and died”?)I know I won’t see you laterWhen I’m hooked up to a ventilator(Both:) So, baby, let’s stay inside
― bagel in the streets, donut in the sheets (morrisp), Wednesday, 21 October 2020 01:25 (three years ago) link
stay two metres awaaay
― Specific Ocean Blue (dog latin), Wednesday, 21 October 2020 17:45 (three years ago) link
or six feet (USA)
― the body of a spider... (scampering alpaca), Wednesday, 21 October 2020 18:33 (three years ago) link
its not officially the holiday season until my facebook feed is filled with people who ride for Michael Jackson and TI busting out the handclap emojis to post about how THIS-SONG-IS-NOT-OK!
― turn the jawhatthefuckever on (One Eye Open), Wednesday, 21 October 2020 18:55 (three years ago) link
balls has the most otm post itt
― eat my room temperature ass (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 21 October 2020 20:32 (three years ago) link
eh, silly that this has become such a thing to have such an ardent take on.
― DT, Wednesday, 21 October 2020 22:01 (three years ago) link
Relitigate
― عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Sunday, 11 December 2022 18:58 (one year ago) link