Neil Gaiman - S/D

That would be pretty brilliant.

xp, Death becomes her

there's no real sexy goth hippie equivalent these days is there

http://thematerialsleuth.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/die-antwoord-4.jpg

just heavier on the creepy and the afrikaner accent than you would've expected, can totally see WB taking that tact

gah what is that

be nice, i like yolandi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yolandi_Visser

The writing in issue one of Overture is pretty damn bad. Maybe Sandman was always bad? Haven't re-read it for maybe ten years.

Sandman doesn't really bear a lot of re-reading ime. It's construction was p novel at the time - all these seemingly disconnected strands weaving in and out - but it's not really something with a lot of depth and a lot of the art is terrible.

let me add to that - the art is really, really terrible

I've been re-reading Sandman for the first time in 20 years and it's better than I remember. His over-writing has dated better than Alan Moore's over-writing. It's still terribly precious. But the bad stuff isn't as bad as I thought it would be. And A Doll's House is still terrific fun.

His over-writing has dated better than Alan Moore's over-writing.

Oh come now, Moore>>>>>>>>Gaiman.

No, I agree with you! Gaiman is third-tier compared to Moore. I'm thinking more of things like the text panels in Swamp Thing, which are atrocious. Although I suppose Gaiman gets away with a lot of indulgence for me, because I'd rather look at a paragraph of Todd Klein than a paragraph of John Costanza.

Re: Overture - I don't want to rep for it as a great work of comics or anything, but it's a lot more fun than Century or Neonomicon.

I'm getting back into reading Sandman and forgot how enjoyable it is.

Not a huge comics fan but after a few years of Alan Moore devotion I eventually got fed up of his constant literary eulogising and cthulu references. Maybe it was the latest crappy League albums but they were like a curates egg in a way. Will always rep for his best stuff but he's fallible,you know? And sandman is a lot of fun in its way. I've only read Prologue,Dolls House and I'm onot Seasons of Most now.

You shouldn't skip the shorts in between.

let me add to that - the art is really, really terrible

― Raccoon Tanuki

Got miles better and more consistent roughly halfway through the run, thankfully.

[Sandman doesn't really bear a lot of re-reading ime. It's construction was p novel at the time - all these seemingly disconnected strands weaving in and out - but it's not really something with a lot of depth and a lot of the art is terrible.

been re-reading the entire run recently, including the books I haven't read since they were initially published in monthly comics form, and this is still pretty much how I feel. For every "oh that's clever" mythological recontextualization conceit there's a ton of precious gothic mopey posing or hamfisted repetition of themes/plot points and omg some of the art is SO BAD. Hempel, P. Craig Russell and a handful of others acquit themselves well but man there is a lot of just sloppy scratchy poorly colored bullshit. Story-wise one of the things I find annoying about it is how mechanical and fatalistic it is - there are rules, and things various beings have to do, and that's just the way it is, and then it happens, and then it's over. The lack of agency on the part of so many characters, while obviously clearly rooted in some of the mythological traditions Gaiman is so fond of pillaging, also makes any real emotional engagement with the material difficult. It's very clockwork. I kinda don't give a shit about any of them except for Hob Gadling, maybe the only genuinely relatable/realistic character in the whole thing.

It is interesting to me that while this is the work that established him, judging from my personal anecdotal experience and the various other ilx threads, he managed to become a kind of cutesy goth cottage industry with a variety of points of entry for both comics and non-comics fans alike.

Has gaiman done anything worthwhile in years? Last efforts of his I tried were that rubbish Batman funeral nonsense and the first issue of Sandman Overture, which I couldn't be arsed going on with. Prosewise, Anansi Boys was enough for me to bail.

His short prose stories are still often good.

Anansi boys is a terrible pun. Book was ok.

The YA one about the pond (?) was forgettable. Downhill all the way after the first chapter.

I've just bought the Norse Mythology thing cheap on Amazon, am hoping that's better.

I am really enjoying his current adaptation of american gods with russell and hampton. Didnt read the book tho.

russell and hampton

?

P. Craig Russell and Scott Hampton are the main two artists on the comic adaptation of American Gods. They are also using some guest artists on some of the interlude sections like Walt Simonson.

Haven't read the novel, but I have seen the first season of the TV show and after reading the first 5 issues of the comic. I liked both enough that I'm looking for a paperback at the used book stores though.

I remember liking the book but am having trouble finding the time or enthusiasm to read it again.

Nowadays I think most folks know him because of the novels and the adaptations and the Twitter account, whereas Sandman is just a "weird comic he used to to do"

My partner and most of my family have read Neverwhere, I didn't much enjoy it but they all *loved* it

I've just been re-reading Sandman too, I'm at A Game of You, which iirc is where it starts to get boring

He's not to my taste, but I wouldn't underestimate the pull of someone who writes reasonably well-written, accessible, female-reader friendly adult genre fiction - he doesn't have a ton of competition there

Queer friendly as well. His politics have always been pretty good. But yeah in terms of actual writing skills, a lot of great ideas but hardly top tier when it comes pulling them all togther. I thought Sandman was the bollocks when I was a teenager but am scared to read it again.

I'm enjoying it so far, including the art, but it's better when it's a horror book. Anything to do with fairies, roman emperors, greek gods, Charles Vess, etc - forget it. And SO MUCH TEXT, I still want to skip it as much as I did when I was a teenager.

Also any version of the phrase "This is a story about stories" - argh.

I recall my teenaged brain saw all the text as a sign of literary weight - cf Moore's Swamp Thing (which admittedly holds up fairly well).

P. Craig Russell and Scott Hampton are the main two artists on the comic adaptation of American Gods

ah right - as far as I know that adaptation is written by Russell, as with all his adaptations, without collaboration from the writer.

Also any version of the phrase "This is a story about stories" - argh.

lol otm

Moore's purply prose in Swamp Thing doesn't bother me a bit, it's totally in the over-written horror vein of Lovecraft, Dunsany etc.

He's just a much better storyteller than Gaiman (or was), so it mostly doesn't matter, yeah.

Moore's prose style is horrible nowadays.

This is niche but lots of fun: http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Nothing_O%27Clock_(short_story) - it's the first thing by Gaiman i've wholeheartedly enjoyed since I was a teen

Ah, yes, his Who work. i loved The Doctor's Wife, did not like Nightmare in Silver at all

The Doctor's Wife was written four years before Sandman Overture, or I would have mentioned it.

Nightmare In Silver was a total mess, but also was changed significantly from his script, and had major issues in production otherwise too.

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/neil-gaiman-good-omens-michael-sheen-amazon-1202522663/

Casting pretty dead on, albeit whitedudey

Xpost - The short story is a lot better than either of his episodes.

I couldn't get through the first issue of Sandman Overture. Tedious.

Unfortunately it's the best issue, too

I've just bought the Norse Mythology thing cheap on Amazon, am hoping that's better.

Ah well

most of the JH Williams III comics I've bought were for him rather than the writing, and Sandman Overture was a great setup for him to run wild on.

Oh yeah very beautiful art for sure.

I finished up my re-read of Sandman with Game of You and jesus christ what a shitty mess of a book that is from start to finish, from the ridiculous Delany intro in the TPB to the totally unearned pathos of the closing funeral scene, I wanted to throw it across the room when I was done with it.

literally nothing about the story makes any sense, the setup, the characters, the resolution. All feels made up as it goes along, with plenty of garbage details and crappily conceived gender politics window-dressing thrown in, the art is painful to look at, BLECH

I remember GoY being one of the medium to better arcs, but I haven't read any of the original run for at least a decade.

there's a lesbian character who describes being coerced (although tbf it isn't really clear what happens, her description is deliberately muddled to foreground the character's total ignorance of hetero sex, which is really weird) into sex with a man and then skips a period and thinks she is pregnant so she asks Barbie how can she find out if she is really pregnant/what should she do. She asks Barbie if it hurts to have an abortion and Barbie says "not really". It is one of the most tone-deaf and poorly conceived sequences, it's really flabbergasting. And this is in the middle of a story arc that involves a trans character being told she's not really a woman cuz "the gods don't see it that way", and is subsequently killed (along with a homeless black woman) because Thessaly violates some magical law about the moon. And then Barbie is sad that her trans roommate is dead but apparently bears no ill will to Thessaly even though it is 100% her fault god there are so many fucking plot holes in this thing.

So anyone else watched the Good Omens mini-series on Amazon Video or whatever they call it?

It's... as good and bad as the book. Aziraphale and Crowley are pretty damn great in it though.

oh nevermind, this thread is in comics... didn't realize

Discussed on the Amazon Prime thread.

any version of the phrase "This is a story about stories" - argh.

― Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 14 August 2017 12:57 (four years ago) bookmarkflaglink

"Sandman is a story about stories"

Author @neilhimself explains the story of his famous comic ahead of its Netflix release#KayBurley MT pic.twitter.com/Zv0DjukouI

— Kay Burley (@KayBurley) August 3, 2022