Obamacare / Affordable Care Act : classic or dud?

social security for all

i should probably stop dragging my feet on this

commie!

http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/stateroundup/rubio-enrolls-in-obamacare-takes-federal-subsidy/2156529

Lie of the Year non-shockah

Oh dear

uh oh: "industry groups give up on lobbying for medicaid expansion"

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/obamacare-medicaid-expansion-lobbying-2015

"What I'm really struggling with is -- I don't even know how to talk about expanding Medicaid without just pissing Republicans the hell off and making them think I'm part of the problem," said a top official for one of the industry groups, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to talk frankly about the political reality in their state and avoid upsetting the chances of expansion in the long term.

I think these expansions will eventually happen because the amount of free money being left on the table is just too huge to ignore forever, but it may end up taking years.

I don't even know how to talk about expanding Medicaid without just pissing Republicans the hell off and making them think I'm part of the problem," said a top official for one of the industry groups, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to talk frankly about the political reality in their state and avoid upsetting the chances of expansion in the long term.

profile in courage

One of the basic tenets of Obamacare is that the government will help lower-income Americans -- anyone making less than about $45,900 a year -- pay for the health insurance everyone is now mandated to have.
But a CNN analysis shows that in the largest city in nearly every state, many low-income younger Americans won't get any subsidy at all. Administration officials said the reason so many Americans won't receive a subsidy is that the cost of insurance is lower than the government initially expected. Subsidies are calculated using a complicated formula based on the cost of insurance premiums, which can vary drastically from state to state, and even county to county.

this is now me, because I make a bit more money but well under that limit. No subsidy and the cheapest silver plan is $244 (cheapest bronze $180).

I'd continue to say fuck it rather than pay 10% of my income to insurance I likely won't use but I really want to take up Brazilian jiu-jitsu and I can't be comfortable doing that without insurance.

straining my empathy to feel bad for someone complaining about health ins costs but can do cool stuff like jiu-jitsu and gun buying.

that legendary american empathy

straining my empathy to feel bad for someone complaining about health ins costs but can do cool stuff like jiu-jitsu and gun buying.

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:25 PM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah this is right on everyone should have to pour money into bullshit instead of spending their time doing stuff

totally with you on the ilx.xls mandatory background check for gun owners but otherwise i mean

i could be deluding myself, but i feel like the hysterical reaction about obamacare's rollout and early impact has died-down some, at least judging from the twitter feeds of some conservative "advocacy-journalists" i follow (e.g., byron york, who's begun to find time for other topics).

xxp I know, right? If your hobbies are playing with firearms and getting kicked in the face, who has time for nonsense like health insurance? Someone else will pay for that if it comes up.

I mean, I get the vibe that Milo's the ilxor most likely to own nunchuks but begrudging jiu jitsu is basically the same as all those bullshit "I saw a POOR PERSON WITH AN IPHONE" Facebook things ppl repost

Someone else will pay for that if it comes up.

someone else paying for it is awesome; everybody else paying for the healthcare of people who need it is how healthcare can work

i am reared on socialised medicine so i can just leave if it's gonna make people awkward

i could be deluding myself, but i feel like the hysterical reaction about obamacare's rollout and early impact has died-down some, at least judging from the twitter feeds of some conservative "advocacy-journalists" i follow (e.g., byron york, who's begun to find time for other topics).

― Daniel, Esq 2, Thursday, December 26, 2013 10:51 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It's kind of strange, no one really talks about it at all anymore in the MSM. I'm sure there's all sorts of speculation about FEMA camps or something on the Blaze tho.

I guess the Duck Dynasty thing really sucked up a lot of the oxygen

Man, Granny, the gun control threads were all over a year ago, you can let it go.

fyi, I want to try jiu jitsu because I'm getting older and want to remember what it was like being even a little bit athletic. No depth perception so rec league basketball lost out.

if only obamacare covered vision

Someone else will pay for that if it comes up.

someone else paying for it is awesome; everybody else paying for the healthcare of people who need it is how healthcare can work

― mustread guy (schlump), Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:18 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yes, well, until we have that, that is most emphatically not how it works.

yeah this is right on everyone should have to pour money into bullshit instead of spending their time doing stuff

I mean, I get the vibe that Milo's the ilxor most likely to own nunchuks but begrudging jiu jitsu is basically the same as all those bullshit "I saw a POOR PERSON WITH AN IPHONE" Facebook things ppl repost

This is not where I was coming from but, being ILX, I knew people would assume it was.
If you think buying health insurance is pouring money into bullshit then I really don't know what to tell ya.
If you're complaining about having to spend 10% of your income to guard yourself from possible financial and physical ruin then I really don't know what to tell ya. Being an adult has financial responsibilities - rent, food, healthcare being the big 3 - and whining about having to meet those (non-fun) responsibilities is what Milo and many others seem to be doing wrt Obamacare.

I enjoy (intense sarcasm) listening to people explain how they have lifestyles that make them not really need insurance, making it a rip-off for them.

that legendary american empathy

― ogmor, Thursday, December 26, 2013 3:33 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The main issue is that my empathy lies with people who desperately needed coverage but couldn't get it pre-ACA, not with people who have to buy coverage (something they should do anyway) so it's feasible that those uninsured can obtain coverage. Everyone makes this about them, how they're affected by the law.

Everyone makes this about them, how they're affected by the law.

Nah, for real?

yep you're not alone in your self-centeredness

I mean, yeah, as someone who doesn't use medical care on anything resembling a regular basis (pretty sure I haven't been to a doctor in 8 months), it is kind of a big deal that the government wants to push me into writing a check for 10% of my real-world money every month to a for-profit corporation. Well, I guess I could just shovel 8% of my money into a plan that's utterly useless outside of a major tragedy (which would, of course, fuck me anyway).

I'm not sure why you'd be surprised that people like me are hesistant to cheer for Obamacare. No one likes tithing a large percentage of income to something where they perceive little benefit, particularly when other options (single-payer) exist and work in the rest of the civilized world.

This is separate from my current process of looking - if I start engaging in a contact sport, yes, I'm a moron if I don't have insurance. That's why I'm looking. Doesn't make the costs - which are, for the record, significantly higher plan-to-plan vs what I was looking at 18 months ago - more palatable.

Then just pay the fine and stfu

I'm glad my grandma was never so whiny.

I'm not sure why you'd be surprised that people like me are hesistant to cheer for Obamacare.

Nice phrasing. They are outright against it, many based purely on the financial consequence it has for them personally. (I can guarantee you ACA has a more severe--financial and otherwise--on me than it does on you)

I'm with you that their are better options in rest of the world. This "fix" is shit.

you're saying that *I'm* the one whining here? Good grief

xp -
So, basically, you're being a twat because some other people are libertarians, even though I'm not.

Coo'.

as someone who doesn't use medical care on anything resembling a regular basis (pretty sure I haven't been to a doctor in 8 months)

this is why it's called "insurance"

it is kind of a big deal that the government wants to push me into writing a check for 10% of my real-world money every month to a for-profit corporation.

... No one likes tithing a large percentage of income to something where they perceive little benefit, particularly when other options (single-payer) exist and work in the rest of the civilized world.

but...people in countries with single-payer also pay a significant amount of their income toward healthcare...it's just that they pay it to the govt in the form of taxes rather than directly to the hospital/insurance companies. i'm no pro, but look at canada. in 2013, , the average 'unattached person' (someone paying only for themselves, not for their family or any dependents) in Canada paid $3,780 with an average income of $39,039. in other words, in canada the average person like you (i'm assuming you're only looking for coverage for yourself) paid 9.6% of their income in taxes for healthcare.

not trying to gang up on you, and not trying to trash single payer (which would be much better than ACA, i agree) just saying that if you're thinking that single payer would save the day in terms of you having to pay for health insurance, i don't think you're correct.

I'm a pretty healthy dude in my early 30s, and among my friends who I consider healthier than myself, one had to have his gall bladder removed and another was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in the last couple years. Shit's random.

Health care is expensive, there's no way around it. 10% of my income towards it seems totally reasonable to me. The "I don't use health care regularly" argument...one day you're one of those people, the next you're in urgent need of really expensive health care services (I've been there myself, tho thank god it didn't arise during those years when I was uninsured). Rolling the dice when it comes to my health is something I'm no longer willing to do (having a health scare def changed my outlook on that).

xp yup. nearly everyone has something go wrong with their health at some point.

come the fuck on with that libertarian think tank piece attacking socialized healthcare - I'm comfortable assuming that a Canadian at my income level doesn't pay $3500 more in federal tax just to fund healthcare.

xp - right, but if I get diagnosed with MS I'm fucked regardless. Neither of my jobs can be performed with advancing MS, so eventually I'm turning to Medicaid anyway. If I have to get gall bladder surgery for $12k and I'm stuck with the $6500 out of pocket cap, there's really not that much difference to me. In either case I'm setting up a payment plan that won't be paid off for a very, very long time.

As discussed above, I think that people who tout catastrophic plans and the like don't take into account that many people who buy the cheapest plan can't afford the portion assigned to them under a catastrophic plan in the first place.

Y'all don't need to pretend that I'm opposed to ACA - it's shitty policy but less shitty than what came before. That doesn't mean that as a lower-middle class person I don't feel the pinch, and from a political perspective it's pretty stupid to run with "suck it up."

xpost

here's another take on it from the Canadian Institute for Health Information: https://secure.cihi.ca/free_products/Lifetime_distEffects_overview_EN.pdf

they put the average costs at 6% (for lowest earning people) to 8% (for highest earners) of total income.

idk, if I had a disease that'd be exacerbated by my job I might consider a new trade

if the cheapest bronze plan is more than 8% of your income (actually modified AGI), then you are exempt from the penalty

<q>they put the average costs at 6% (for lowest earning people) to 8% (for highest earners) of total income.

― Karl Malone, Friday, 27 December 2013 21:44 (6 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink</q>

Interestingly most developed economies spend about 8% of GDP on healthcare (US runs at about 16%)

apparently that "prayer as preventative care if you're poor" thing isn't working so well

if you don't raise the price of health care, you kenyan you, we're going to force the country to default!

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/paul-ryan-debt-limit-obamacare-insurer-bailout

i get that the gop wants to create conditions that will cause obamacare to fail or justify a repeal (and that's the intent behind eliminating the risk-corridor). but what's the gop's articulated policy rationale for proposing the elimination of the risk-corridor, e.g., that it's a tax on insurance companies or that it's an encroachment into business freedom?

socialism!

benghazi?

rationale?