Liebezeit vs Baker vs Bruford vs ____________________

I'm penning in Steve Jansen as the 4th candidate for the tie-in.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

which one drummed in YES and KING CRIMSON?

weird poll

liebezeit seems like the hipper answer but bruford seems like the righter answer

there's really nothing like else like when "paper house" locks into that tribal groove but come on, "heart of the sunrise"? "starless"?

I like Bruford all around but Halleluwah

"halleluhwah" is amazing but "close to the edge"

i mean liebezeit is great as a pure groove drummer, but i'd still put him behind clyde and jabo, and probably tony allen too.

Nobody putting it down for Baker? Is it because of all the interminable solos?

I find Baker to be kind of awful. Really thuddy and not fun.

i hear that (especially in the baker gurvitz army stuff) but the live album ginger did with fela kuti is pretty awesome for realziz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6awYn56IWQ

yeah I kind of enjoy that record, but isn't he playing alongside tony allen there? He really didn't have great feel on his own. I find his drumming very halting and awkward.

check out Blakey blatantly aping Baker starting around 4:50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qghrsBfSbgk

Bruford is a real master of the drumset and I don't know if I'd say either of the others are. Granted that a lot of "masters" of the drumset are more boring to listen to than some drummers that just groove really hard, I just don't think that's the case here.

sometimes i feel i enjoy the liebezeit copycats more than jaki himself. bruford all time obv, but strangely there ain't that many modern drummers successfully cloning his style. idk, i hear a bit of brudford in greg saunier, mostly in terms of accents and overall unpredictability but that's about it.

i feel i enjoy the liebezeit copycats

por ejemplo...?

yeah also wondering

mmmmmm

mig from moonshake, david turner from long fin killie, jerry fuchs from turing machine, dude from pram (their first drummer, can't recall his name) etc.

sorry to have to say it, but who from what? i don't know anything about any of those bands! is there some secret island where all the jaki-worshipping drummers live?

my favorite liebezeit song is nookie

well Jerry Fuchs (RIP) also played with LCD Soundsystem and The Juan MacLean among others, LL, so you probably have heard him. The other two I don't know from Adam.

er other three

also I kind of think of Neu! as more progenitors of that style than Can

i'd say this guy was def a fan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Young_(drummer)

sorry to have to say it, but who from what? i don't know anything about any of those bands! is there some secret island where all the jaki-worshipping drummers live?

haven't you listened to moonshake's eva luna??? man, you're in for a threat. 1st two LFK records and pram's helium also essential listening for the krautisms and the jaki aping in particular (i swear i'm not making this up, those guys were super into liebezeit)

fun, takes patience, steve gadd imo

http://youtu.be/Ln6b_nBM-V8?t=2m46s

^ thanks to my brother for the link

i love the way gadd moves when he plays -- he loves drumming more than most drummers imo

yeah, plus just beating the hell out of shit

the other two aren't my thing (weckl & colaiuta)

he crushes weckl and colaiuta on that imo, they're just all like "duggaduggaduggadugaaduggaduggadugga PSH PSH PSH PSHHHHH duggaduggadugga pshhh" while he's grooving the shit out of everything

i love the way he'll hang back a moment, find (or make) space in their noise, and just swing on in like a wrecking ball

This is one of my favorite Gadd solos (starts around 4:53):

Drum geek sick chops youtube thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFVzqrfMTRI#t=322

xxxp have not, but will investigate
i want a ticket to the island!

here's gadd in full blast mode

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-yPdckNaDo

o hell yeah, that was inspirational (@hurting)

bass solo leading up pretty fn sick too

http://youtu.be/PuBFSFqLF5E?t=6m13s

crazy

oh yeah, that's like a famous gadd lick

hurting otm in this thread, i'm not a baker fan.

btw i ran into gadd twice in new orleans when he was there with james taylor iirc, he was the nicest and most curious dude ever. the first time was at the fairgrounds where he was just walking around checking all the new orleans bands out, asking us "what's good? what am i saying, it's all good!" then later he was at a club where my brass band was playing...he couldn't stay for the show, but they were playing a cd of ours over the PA and he was like, "wait, this is you guys? this is amazing!" and asked for a copy.

Ugh, fucking Steve Gadd. He's like an exaggerated caricature of the worst aspects of fuzak session hackery. Him and Weckl.

check out Blakey blatantly aping Baker starting around 4:50

Haha, that's hilarious.

Would probably go with Liebezeit, narrowly over Bruford. Bruford can swing mightily, and came pretty damn close to taking Tony Williams' shit to another level. But Liebezeit is such a monster.

a relentlessly groovy monster

It's a session-off!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln6b_nBM-V8

One thing that's fun about these nerd-fests is that it's presented like some sort of a challenge, but all these dudes can play anything.

(There's a point around 2:30 where it looks like Vinnie is playing a one-handed roll!)

Almost a fun read from Steve Vai:

"I was just enamored with Vinnie. Back in the Frank days, his whole approach, when I heard Vinnie play, his phrasing - it satisfied something in my heart. It was easy to get certain rhythmic gratification from straight up-and-down-type players. Playing grooves, alternate grooves here and there. But Vinnie just came in and threw a wrench into the works. The guy is an alien. He was able to touch buttons with his sense of polyrhythms that no one has ever done. Frank's band was the perfect soundboard for that. I started transcribing his playing for The Frank Zappa Book. I mean, there's five to six different notations for the hi-hat!" (laughs)

"I'll tell you a really great Vinnie story. He's one of the most amazing sight-readers that ever existed on the instrument. One day we were in a Frank rehearsal, this was early '80s, and Frank brought in this piece of music called "Mo 'N Herb's Vacation." Just unbelievably complex. All the drums were written out, just like "The Black Page" except even more complex. There were these runs of like 17 over 3 and every drumhead is notated differently. And there were a whole bunch of people there, I think Bozzio was there."

"Vinnie had this piece of music on the stand to his right. To his left he had another music stand with a plate of sushi on it, okay? Now the tempo of the piece was very slow, like "The Black Page." And then the first riff came in, [mimics bizarre Zappa-esque drum rhythm patterns] with all these choking of cymbals, and hi-hat, ruffs, spinning of rototoms and all this crazy stuff. And I saw Vinnie reading this thing. Now, Vinnie has this habit of pushing his glasses up with the middle finger of his right hand. Well I saw him look at this one bar of music, it was the last bar of music on the page. He started to play it as he was turning the page with one hand, and then once the page was turned he continued playing the riff with his right hand, as he reached over with his left hand, grabbed a piece of sushi and put it in his mouth, continued the riff with his left hand and feet, pushed his glasses up, and then played the remaining part of the bar."

"It was the sickest thing I have ever seen. Frank threw his music up in the air. Bozzio turned around and walked away. I just started laughing."

Always, not almost a fun read. Whoops.

Steve Vai, almost a guitarist I want to hear.

i wouldn't call that a one-handed roll, he's playing double strokes to fill in between the right hand notes, but you're right, facility is not an issue for any of these dudes.

haha, i was trying to find a video of buddy rich doing a one-handed roll and i came across this one that i hadn't seen before:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0V4Aqs2D48

"shit!" (1:24)

The classic Vinnie story, love it.

i finally got around to buying secret rhythms -- i got #3 -- are the rest of them as good as #3?
what is he doing these days? i know he was interviewed for the tago mago 33 1/3 book but i haven't read it.

happy 77th bday to Jaki!!

HB JL!!!

I defer to him as the ne plus ultra of JLs

Just ordered the tago mago book last week actually

Shook the great man's hand last night, no photo evidence unfortunately. He seems a bit deaf (he is 77 after all) so didn't try to engage him in conversation.

More info pls! Did you see him play?

Yeah he was playing with Hans-Joachim Irmler of Faust. Playing a tiny drumkit which barely came up to his knees, no bass drum. Irmler was playing his original homemade organ from early Faust days, which I made sure I had a good look at, it really is homemade!

What kind of stuff did Jaki play? What else is he doing these days? I saw that Ginger Baker is playing here (Chicago) and turned up my nose but I would elbow people out of the way to see Jaki.

I am supporting them tonight. *shitting it shitting it shitting it*

omg shut up
really?!

do you have a plan? have you rehearsed the plan? will you at least promise to report back in florid detail?

Yep really. Supported Irmler before (he's REALLY NICE) but Liebezeit is making me wobble. I don't know if I will be able to even say hello. Particularly because my new band is ridiculous and they really might hate it.

I doubt it, and anyway you can't think like that -- what would you do in the best case scenario?
What a dream.

Playing a tiny drumkit which barely came up to his knees, no bass drum

huh, had to look up his setup after reading this, i like it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBiYWjAfCDE

Jaki seemed like a wonderful old fellow, really enjoying himself and delighted with sheer love being beamed at him by the audience... I'm sure H-J didn't mind, he's Jaki Liebezeit after all.

(xp) There was an interview and Q&A after the gig and Jaki explained why he'd abandoned the traditional jazz/rock kit, he called the hi-hat, the "Charleston Machine ", because he said it was added to the drumkit at the time of the Charleston craze... don't know if that's true but it's a good story!

going to miss Jaki tonight because of various things, but good luck emil.y!

emil.y please wear a vest (chain mail optional) and then think about irmin s in this video
you could also pull some of those dance moves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4nHr44vE9I

This will mean nothing to American ILXors and very little to UK ILXors either, but this guy was at the gig last night, goin' apeshit.

but Liebezeit is making me wobble

i see what u did there

Jaki was very much shy/not speaking much English, but Jochen is so so nice. But even just being around for the soundcheck, where drum tests are always the worst part, and I just thought... this is not the worst, it's the fucking drummer from Can. Holy crap. I am a ridiculous human, mind you.

Also we were trying to take sneaky photos backstage but then they took photos of us. <3 <3 <3

Wow!

I'm glad it was a positive experience!! I want him to live forever if possible.

Unless he wants to retire his human half and carry on as a machine. That'd be ok.

Picked up Cyclopean at the store today, Irmin Schmidt is on it too -- reminds me a lot of the Secret Rhythms stuff (Burnt Friedman is on it too)
It's really short and sounds like one long song. I like it.

The Baker family are sad to announce that Ginger is critically ill in hospital. Please keep him in your prayers tonight

— Ginger Baker (@GingerBDrums) September 25, 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lncs2pjrau4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1nw-G4_bVk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vNcgL9Fi4w

https://www.eventbrite.ie/e/prog-rock-grooves-jaki-liebezeit-the-nature-of-rhythm-tickets-119431766629
a tribute toi Jaki as part of the Culture NIght celebration tonight.
not sure what status is on tickets and how limited tehy are so best to try to book one as soon as you see this if you can.

THis worked while the event was live
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNkWUDCZ6QA

or asa Url
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNkWUDCZ6QA

ok, that link appears to start at about the right place. I noticed the one i had on Facebook started 3hrs and 9 minutes into a longer recording. Looks like that's bookmarked at the right point though