Liebezeit vs Baker vs Bruford vs ____________________

drummers

jk

jaki I reckon

Cutler?

McCarroll

Tony Allen, Spencer Dryden, Elvin Jones, Steve Shelley, Ted Parsons, Dave Mattacks, Terry Graham, Clyde Stubblefield, Art Blakey, Max Roach, Uncle Tom Cobbley.

Lindy Morrison.

Funny, I had just been thinking Clare Moore but maybe that was too diddleyesque

baker feels way different to bruford and liebezeit to me, who both have that minimalist, metronomic thing going on.

jaki is the best for jaki-like drumming

jaki = heart, bruford = brain, paul thompson = soul. and yes, lindy morrison is a force of nature; love her!

What is Thompson's finest moment?

john stanier?

"Serenade"

xp

bruford, he's the only one out of these that i listened to and studied a ton. love his metric modulation tricks, and every note he plays on Red.

and he did while wearing overalls

Bruford TS: overalls vs yellow suit

Wyatt

Liebezeit, as if there's a choice

I'm penning in Steve Jansen as the 4th candidate for the tie-in.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

which one drummed in YES and KING CRIMSON?

weird poll

liebezeit seems like the hipper answer but bruford seems like the righter answer

there's really nothing like else like when "paper house" locks into that tribal groove but come on, "heart of the sunrise"? "starless"?

I like Bruford all around but Halleluwah

"halleluhwah" is amazing but "close to the edge"

i mean liebezeit is great as a pure groove drummer, but i'd still put him behind clyde and jabo, and probably tony allen too.

Nobody putting it down for Baker? Is it because of all the interminable solos?

I find Baker to be kind of awful. Really thuddy and not fun.

i hear that (especially in the baker gurvitz army stuff) but the live album ginger did with fela kuti is pretty awesome for realziz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6awYn56IWQ

yeah I kind of enjoy that record, but isn't he playing alongside tony allen there? He really didn't have great feel on his own. I find his drumming very halting and awkward.

check out Blakey blatantly aping Baker starting around 4:50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qghrsBfSbgk

Bruford is a real master of the drumset and I don't know if I'd say either of the others are. Granted that a lot of "masters" of the drumset are more boring to listen to than some drummers that just groove really hard, I just don't think that's the case here.

sometimes i feel i enjoy the liebezeit copycats more than jaki himself. bruford all time obv, but strangely there ain't that many modern drummers successfully cloning his style. idk, i hear a bit of brudford in greg saunier, mostly in terms of accents and overall unpredictability but that's about it.

i feel i enjoy the liebezeit copycats

por ejemplo...?

yeah also wondering

mmmmmm

mig from moonshake, david turner from long fin killie, jerry fuchs from turing machine, dude from pram (their first drummer, can't recall his name) etc.

sorry to have to say it, but who from what? i don't know anything about any of those bands! is there some secret island where all the jaki-worshipping drummers live?

my favorite liebezeit song is nookie

well Jerry Fuchs (RIP) also played with LCD Soundsystem and The Juan MacLean among others, LL, so you probably have heard him. The other two I don't know from Adam.

er other three

also I kind of think of Neu! as more progenitors of that style than Can

i'd say this guy was def a fan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Young_(drummer)

sorry to have to say it, but who from what? i don't know anything about any of those bands! is there some secret island where all the jaki-worshipping drummers live?

haven't you listened to moonshake's eva luna??? man, you're in for a threat. 1st two LFK records and pram's helium also essential listening for the krautisms and the jaki aping in particular (i swear i'm not making this up, those guys were super into liebezeit)

fun, takes patience, steve gadd imo

http://youtu.be/Ln6b_nBM-V8?t=2m46s

^ thanks to my brother for the link

i love the way gadd moves when he plays -- he loves drumming more than most drummers imo

yeah, plus just beating the hell out of shit

the other two aren't my thing (weckl & colaiuta)

he crushes weckl and colaiuta on that imo, they're just all like "duggaduggaduggadugaaduggaduggadugga PSH PSH PSH PSHHHHH duggaduggadugga pshhh" while he's grooving the shit out of everything

For tension, drive, and excitement from Gadd, I think "Aja" is a great example. Pretty much my go-to song for him.

I will say there are records I love that Gadd's on where he doesn't bug/distract me (Aja, except for his solo bit, and some Paul Simon things). But there's a commonality in approach that I hear where they're both laying back in the same kind of way; not necessarily playing behind the beat, but playing very, I dunno, relaxed, but in a way that (probably irrationally) strikes me as smug.

I will say that I don't always love his sound -- it can be on the dry and dead side for my tastes.

Pram has a singer?

Yes, Rosie! Its p much 'her' band iirc? Listen to 'chrysalis' on ye spotify!

Don't hold Weckyl's '80s hair against him.

Gadd looks smug because he is a survivor. Aaaaample drugs.

Also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-2ylOmIkzU

Grrr

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-2ylOmIkzU

I've been following this thread for 2 weeks and just noticed Baker's name. There's absolutely no way that Ginger rates with either of the other two, that's just silly.

ginger baker is a dude who like ever since I have been playing drums I have heard people rating highly and then I would check him out, and even when I was a beginner I was kind of scratching my head, like maybe there was something I didn't get about the nuance of his drumming

There is no nuance in his drumming, that's the point. Like Elvin Jones said, "This guy plays like he has delusions of grandeur".

there are only two drummers who've done work that I insist on making people listen to (as in "you gotta check out the drumming on this track"). Jaki and Jim White. Bruford is amazing but it's like he's not even human, I dunno.

nb: I am not a drummer

I think Mitch Mitchell is a drummer from the same era who wears "jazz influence" way better than Baker and gets a lot less credit. I love Mitch Mitchell's drumming.

Mitchell! Spanish Castle Magic...those triplet fills!

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

I think I had such a tough time with this I ended up not voting. But on balance my love for KC pushes it to Bruford.

ooooooommmmmmmmggggggg
i don't know how i avoided knowing this before, but i just learned that Jaki's bday is the same as three of my best friends (5/26 -- happy belated birthday!)

also he was born in 1938 so he's getting pretty old! he's still in good health right?

how is his ticker

Reliable iirc

i finally got around to buying secret rhythms -- i got #3 -- are the rest of them as good as #3?
what is he doing these days? i know he was interviewed for the tago mago 33 1/3 book but i haven't read it.

happy 77th bday to Jaki!!

HB JL!!!

I defer to him as the ne plus ultra of JLs

Just ordered the tago mago book last week actually

Shook the great man's hand last night, no photo evidence unfortunately. He seems a bit deaf (he is 77 after all) so didn't try to engage him in conversation.

More info pls! Did you see him play?

Yeah he was playing with Hans-Joachim Irmler of Faust. Playing a tiny drumkit which barely came up to his knees, no bass drum. Irmler was playing his original homemade organ from early Faust days, which I made sure I had a good look at, it really is homemade!

What kind of stuff did Jaki play? What else is he doing these days? I saw that Ginger Baker is playing here (Chicago) and turned up my nose but I would elbow people out of the way to see Jaki.

I am supporting them tonight. *shitting it shitting it shitting it*

omg shut up
really?!

do you have a plan? have you rehearsed the plan? will you at least promise to report back in florid detail?

Yep really. Supported Irmler before (he's REALLY NICE) but Liebezeit is making me wobble. I don't know if I will be able to even say hello. Particularly because my new band is ridiculous and they really might hate it.

I doubt it, and anyway you can't think like that -- what would you do in the best case scenario?
What a dream.

Playing a tiny drumkit which barely came up to his knees, no bass drum

huh, had to look up his setup after reading this, i like it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBiYWjAfCDE

Jaki seemed like a wonderful old fellow, really enjoying himself and delighted with sheer love being beamed at him by the audience... I'm sure H-J didn't mind, he's Jaki Liebezeit after all.

(xp) There was an interview and Q&A after the gig and Jaki explained why he'd abandoned the traditional jazz/rock kit, he called the hi-hat, the "Charleston Machine ", because he said it was added to the drumkit at the time of the Charleston craze... don't know if that's true but it's a good story!

going to miss Jaki tonight because of various things, but good luck emil.y!

emil.y please wear a vest (chain mail optional) and then think about irmin s in this video
you could also pull some of those dance moves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4nHr44vE9I

This will mean nothing to American ILXors and very little to UK ILXors either, but this guy was at the gig last night, goin' apeshit.

but Liebezeit is making me wobble

i see what u did there

Jaki was very much shy/not speaking much English, but Jochen is so so nice. But even just being around for the soundcheck, where drum tests are always the worst part, and I just thought... this is not the worst, it's the fucking drummer from Can. Holy crap. I am a ridiculous human, mind you.

Also we were trying to take sneaky photos backstage but then they took photos of us. <3 <3 <3

Wow!

I'm glad it was a positive experience!! I want him to live forever if possible.

Unless he wants to retire his human half and carry on as a machine. That'd be ok.

Picked up Cyclopean at the store today, Irmin Schmidt is on it too -- reminds me a lot of the Secret Rhythms stuff (Burnt Friedman is on it too)
It's really short and sounds like one long song. I like it.

The Baker family are sad to announce that Ginger is critically ill in hospital. Please keep him in your prayers tonight

— Ginger Baker (@GingerBDrums) September 25, 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lncs2pjrau4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1nw-G4_bVk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vNcgL9Fi4w

https://www.eventbrite.ie/e/prog-rock-grooves-jaki-liebezeit-the-nature-of-rhythm-tickets-119431766629
a tribute toi Jaki as part of the Culture NIght celebration tonight.
not sure what status is on tickets and how limited tehy are so best to try to book one as soon as you see this if you can.

THis worked while the event was live
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNkWUDCZ6QA

or asa Url
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNkWUDCZ6QA

ok, that link appears to start at about the right place. I noticed the one i had on Facebook started 3hrs and 9 minutes into a longer recording. Looks like that's bookmarked at the right point though