i have a search function, you know
― Josh (Josh), Saturday, 3 December 2005 06:07 (eighteen years ago) link
― k/l (Ken L), Sunday, 4 December 2005 00:12 (eighteen years ago) link
― Casuistry (Chris P), Sunday, 4 December 2005 00:32 (eighteen years ago) link
― Jaq (Jaq), Sunday, 4 December 2005 02:57 (eighteen years ago) link
― the bellefox, Monday, 5 December 2005 15:58 (eighteen years ago) link
& oh hey thanx josh
― tom west (thomp), Monday, 5 December 2005 17:52 (eighteen years ago) link
― tom west (thomp), Monday, 5 December 2005 18:00 (eighteen years ago) link
― tom west (thomp), Monday, 5 December 2005 18:01 (eighteen years ago) link
― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Monday, 5 December 2005 20:46 (eighteen years ago) link
― tom west (thomp), Monday, 5 December 2005 21:22 (eighteen years ago) link
― Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 5 December 2005 22:26 (eighteen years ago) link
Moby-Dick is back on play. The below-decks stowaways have appeared, to the consternation of many of the crew, and it is the first lowering. There is a reference to samphire, Casuistry. In chapter 46, I think.
― Jaq (Jaq), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 04:39 (eighteen years ago) link
― the bellefox, Tuesday, 6 December 2005 21:32 (eighteen years ago) link
― Jaq (Jaq), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 22:50 (eighteen years ago) link
― tom west (thomp), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 23:06 (eighteen years ago) link
― tom west (thomp), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 23:15 (eighteen years ago) link
we are past forty-nine posts, and no one has made note of this yet.
― tom west (thomp), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 23:17 (eighteen years ago) link
Also, did you notice that the radio station that Much works at is "FUCK" backwards. This very much shows the sense of humor that Pynchon has and his ability to not take things so seriously.
Now while this has no immediate analysis on the book, I just find them interest tid-bits.
― Guadeleupe, Monday, 6 February 2006 16:38 (eighteen years ago) link
― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 03:31 (eighteen years ago) link
― Josh (Josh), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 04:43 (eighteen years ago) link
i could be wrong tho
― J. Lamphere (WatchMeJumpStart), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 06:58 (eighteen years ago) link
― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 11:14 (eighteen years ago) link
― tom west (thomp), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 11:26 (eighteen years ago) link
― J. Lamphere (WatchMeJumpStart), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 15:59 (eighteen years ago) link
the prof in my last English class brought up "Oedipa my ass," for what that's worth.
― W i l l (common_person), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 18:35 (eighteen years ago) link
who would NOT notice?
or is it wrong of me to assume that everyone was once an adolescent?
― Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 02:04 (eighteen years ago) link
― Jaq (Jaq), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 02:30 (eighteen years ago) link
― Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 03:50 (eighteen years ago) link
― mike h. (mike h.), Friday, 10 February 2006 23:22 (eighteen years ago) link
― mike h. (mike h.), Friday, 10 February 2006 23:23 (eighteen years ago) link
― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 10:08 (seventeen years ago) link
― tom west (thomp), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 12:02 (seventeen years ago) link
― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 22:47 (seventeen years ago) link
― W i l l (common_person), Saturday, 3 June 2006 17:41 (seventeen years ago) link
How can I learn to appreciate "The Crying of Lot 49"?
― Heave Ho, Saturday, 6 October 2007 11:19 (sixteen years ago) link
get a copy and read it?
― Jaq, Saturday, 6 October 2007 15:48 (sixteen years ago) link
I've read it once, it went over my head.
― Heave Ho, Saturday, 6 October 2007 16:52 (sixteen years ago) link
Wait awhile, then read it again. Read it slowly, read it quickly, read it while waiting in a lawyer's lobby, read it only at stoplights when you are stopped. Wait awhile between each read. Read about it, the opinions of people you admire and people you despise. Tear out an obscure page and saute it in butter. Tear it into pieces with forks, then chew each piece carefully, savoring. Read it without thinking; read it aloud where you can't be heard. Read it while falling asleep and tell yourself to dream its significance. Wake in the night and feel the print on the pages, make out the letters, spell out the words. Copy it out in longhand while listening to the haunting call of the muted posthorn.
― Jaq, Saturday, 6 October 2007 19:10 (sixteen years ago) link
and then start finding "W.A.S.T.E." stamped in weird places.
― Rubyredd, Saturday, 6 October 2007 22:59 (sixteen years ago) link
"I've read it once, it went over my head."
you are not alone.
― Zeno, Saturday, 6 October 2007 23:58 (sixteen years ago) link
i think i would have read it once and been like "i don't get it", but i had to write an essay on it, which made me read it several times. it definitely gets better on multiple readings. also, reading it as a kind of analagy:
The USPS would appear to represent one particular and dominant construction or idea of America, while the W.A.S.T.E. system represents an alternative and subversive representation - a representation of the “excluded middles”. In this story, we can characterise the USPS as a centralised agency, with a streamlined and efficient system of collection and dissemination of information. In opposition, the W.A.S.T.E. service is chaotic, disordered, mysterious, largely unknowable, decentred and without an obvious agency in control. But what the reader comes to realise is that the two systems are in co-existence; neither one of them offers a singular truth, or an overriding master narrative, to describe America. In fact, the two systems represent just how the internet functions: the USPS can be seen as a metaphor for the speed and ease in which global telecommunications technology organises and transmits information, while W.A.S.T.E. symbolises the way in which the reception of that information can be subverted by the receiver. The USPS represents public life, while private life can be seen in the symbol of W.A.S.T.E. The participants of the W.A.S.T.E. system are the “excluded middles” that Decker refers to, and by subverting the USPS system they keep it in check.
― Rubyredd, Sunday, 7 October 2007 00:11 (sixteen years ago) link
One good way to appreciate it is to read some of his other books- then you will appreciate how short it is.
― James Redd and the Blecchs, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 15:37 (sixteen years ago) link
the book crying of lot 49
― James Redd and the Blecchs, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 15:39 (sixteen years ago) link
Funnily enough I don't agree that KVUF is an obvious, um, whatever, rearrangement, of, that other word. I was not really an adolescent as Josh was.
Eddie Mars, I should start writing under that name.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 23 October 2008 11:36 (fifteen years ago) link
I meant, KCUF, but then, potsmaster, and there is a moment in the text where Oedipa is spelled Oepida.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 23 October 2008 11:37 (fifteen years ago) link
My port of entry was through the story of Lot's wife in Genesis - Oedipa is literally "Mucho" (Lot)'s wife. (He describes himself somewhere as parental to his girl listeners.) And P didn't stop there, he deliberately forced in every meaning of the word "lot": auction lot, car lot, lot meaning fate.
Maybe because I grew up in California, the social and landscape descriptions didn't give me much.
― alimosina, Thursday, 23 October 2008 14:42 (fifteen years ago) link
the entire sequence with Oedipa wandering around Berkeley is one of my favorite things ever written. especially when read at night, in solitude, in cities. it's like a 21st-century walpurgisnacht.
― The droid army of the legacy press (bernard snowy), Sunday, 26 October 2008 05:18 (fifteen years ago) link
Bless you. Here, I think I have a tissue somewhere.
You mean San Francisco, right? The Berkeley sequence is somewhat different, though also excellent.
On SF, though, I entirely agree - those 6pp or so are magically lyrical and I think they offer a rare kind of insight into ... culture.
― the pinefox, Monday, 27 October 2008 00:01 (fifteen years ago) link
er, I forget. doesn't she start out in Berkeley? or take the bus there at some point? maybe that's Oakland. I can't remember. I don't know California. I've been to San Francisco once. it wasn't as good as Oedipa's trip there.
― The droid army of the legacy press (bernard snowy), Monday, 27 October 2008 01:21 (fifteen years ago) link
Fab wide-eyed past-tense plot summary:http://www.gradesaver.com/classicnotes/titles/crying/section6.html
Driving without purpose, Oedipa realized that she was heading toward San Francisco in rush hour. Strangely, the hectic rush calmed her. She told herself that she would go with the flow in San Francisco, looking for nothing, and hopefully escape from the maze in which she was entangled.However, within an hour, Oedipa saw a muted post horn. Walking along the streets, Arnold Snarb, a tourist, had pinned his ID badge on Oedipa. She was suddenly among a group of tourists who moved into a gay bar, The Greek Way. Oedipa was pushed in and given a drink. The man she stood next to had on a different badge, one with the muted post horn symbol. Oedipa tried mentioning that she was from Thurn and Taxis but the man did not understand. She directly asked about his pin but he told her nothing until Oedipa admitted that she needed help. She told him everything she knew. He had heard only of Kirby, the code name from the Scope's bathroom wall. He told Oedipa that his pin meant he was a member of Inamorati Anonymous, an organization for isolated individuals against love. The symbol originated with a fired member of Yoyodyne who had wanted to kill himself but could not decide to do it for weeks. He received a stack of letters from others who wanted to commit suicide but never did in response to an ad he placed. All contained the muted horn on the stamp. The man realized this in an attempt to douse himself with gas and burn to death. At that time, he recognized that love was his weakness and that he would start an organization for others who wished to isolate themselves from it. The horn became the sign.After the helpful man left, Oedipa felt drunk and alone. The rest of the night, she wandered the streets of San Francisco, locating the Tristero symbol everywhere. She saw it in chalk on the street, like part of a children's game, and on a Chinese herbalist's window. She felt that she was meant to see and remember every sign. She was safe. In Golden Gate Park, she saw a circle of children who knew of the chalk game. Oedipa wandered into a Mexican diner and found Jesús Arrabal, an anarchist she and Pierce had met in Mazatlán. Jesús had been amazed by Pierce's total oligarchism. Lying near him was an old anarchist paper with an handstruck image of the post horn. Jesús could tell her nothing about it. On a bus, Oedipa noticed a scratched image of the post horn on the back of a seat with "DEATH" penciled near it, standing for "Don't ever antagonize the horn." She found the symbol in a laundromat and she heard a mother at the airport asking her son to write by WASTE. Each sign beat her up more than the last. She would later wonder how many times she had dreamt the horn. It seemed that every underground used WASTE to subvert the government.
However, within an hour, Oedipa saw a muted post horn. Walking along the streets, Arnold Snarb, a tourist, had pinned his ID badge on Oedipa. She was suddenly among a group of tourists who moved into a gay bar, The Greek Way. Oedipa was pushed in and given a drink. The man she stood next to had on a different badge, one with the muted post horn symbol. Oedipa tried mentioning that she was from Thurn and Taxis but the man did not understand. She directly asked about his pin but he told her nothing until Oedipa admitted that she needed help. She told him everything she knew. He had heard only of Kirby, the code name from the Scope's bathroom wall. He told Oedipa that his pin meant he was a member of Inamorati Anonymous, an organization for isolated individuals against love. The symbol originated with a fired member of Yoyodyne who had wanted to kill himself but could not decide to do it for weeks. He received a stack of letters from others who wanted to commit suicide but never did in response to an ad he placed. All contained the muted horn on the stamp. The man realized this in an attempt to douse himself with gas and burn to death. At that time, he recognized that love was his weakness and that he would start an organization for others who wished to isolate themselves from it. The horn became the sign.
After the helpful man left, Oedipa felt drunk and alone. The rest of the night, she wandered the streets of San Francisco, locating the Tristero symbol everywhere. She saw it in chalk on the street, like part of a children's game, and on a Chinese herbalist's window. She felt that she was meant to see and remember every sign. She was safe. In Golden Gate Park, she saw a circle of children who knew of the chalk game. Oedipa wandered into a Mexican diner and found Jesús Arrabal, an anarchist she and Pierce had met in Mazatlán. Jesús had been amazed by Pierce's total oligarchism. Lying near him was an old anarchist paper with an handstruck image of the post horn. Jesús could tell her nothing about it. On a bus, Oedipa noticed a scratched image of the post horn on the back of a seat with "DEATH" penciled near it, standing for "Don't ever antagonize the horn." She found the symbol in a laundromat and she heard a mother at the airport asking her son to write by WASTE. Each sign beat her up more than the last. She would later wonder how many times she had dreamt the horn. It seemed that every underground used WASTE to subvert the government.
― the pinefox, Monday, 27 October 2008 10:21 (fifteen years ago) link
FWIW I think all the big Pynchons have a bit of a dip around 3/4 of the way in and then recover at the end, although none as pronounced as AtD. The section with all the rich kids shagging their way round the Balkans is eminently forgettable.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 20 June 2013 11:39 (ten years ago) link
that's...the best bit*
*the best bit not involving the Chums obv, or the murder of the Italian anarchist, which is one of the best bits in Pynchon (of the 3 1/2 I've read)
AtD only loses me at all with the weird detective potboiler near the end, and even that's kinda fitting as way of uh disappearing Deuce. The Frank Traverse plotline kept threatening to lose me and then kept winning me around, especially him seeing that statue through the window (again, one of the best bits in Pynchon)
― ghosts of cuddlestein butthurt circlejerk zinged fuckboy (imago), Thursday, 20 June 2013 11:45 (ten years ago) link
lol that post 'it's the best bit except this and this and this'
their climactic journey into the East is really amazing IMO
― ghosts of cuddlestein butthurt circlejerk zinged fuckboy (imago), Thursday, 20 June 2013 11:46 (ten years ago) link
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/07/world/europe/princess-gloria-von-thurn-und-taxis-francis.html
Princess Gloria — once christened “Princess TNT” for her explosive years as a hard partying, art-collecting, punk-haired aristocrat — has grown into the sun queen around which many traditionalist Roman Catholics opposed to Pope Francis orbit. Her Regensburg castle is a potential “Gladiator School” for conservative Catholics on a crusade to preserve church traditions.Her Roman palace overlooking the ancient forum is a preferred salon for opposition cardinals, bitter bishops and populists like Stephen K. Bannon. Many of them are hoping to use the sex abuse crisis that amounts to the greatest existential threat to the church in centuries to topple the 81-year-old pontiff, who they are convinced is destroying the faith.
Her Roman palace overlooking the ancient forum is a preferred salon for opposition cardinals, bitter bishops and populists like Stephen K. Bannon. Many of them are hoping to use the sex abuse crisis that amounts to the greatest existential threat to the church in centuries to topple the 81-year-old pontiff, who they are convinced is destroying the faith.
― j., Saturday, 8 December 2018 09:15 (five years ago) link