Prince's most goth moment

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Let me preface this by saying I'm now on the third beer of the evening.

I'm not asking Chaki how old he is in order to sound imperious and dismissive, I'm just attempting to explain why I might sound a bit more territorial about the liberal usage of the term "Goth". While I would never call myself "a Goth", I was a *SERIOUS* fan of several inarguably GOTHIC bands (I tend to follow specific bands, not "movements"). In any event, when I was coming of age in - so to speak - and becoming more musically aware in the early 80's, Gothic bands were largely relegated to --- pardon the pun -- cult status here in the States (we're talking about the 'golden age' of Gothic rock -- vintage Sisters of Mercy, the March Violets, Theatre of Hate, the Mission, the Fields of the Nephilim, Bauhaus and their many offshoots [Tones on Tail/Love & Rockets/Sinister Ducks/Dali's Car etc.], the Cult, the Cure, Siouxsie and the whole slightly silly Batcave scene ala the Specimen, Alien Sex Fiend, Sex Gang Children, etc.) While being inarguably depressive and doomy, I would never blithely toss the "post-Punks" (Joy Division/New Orer, the Pop Group, Killing Joke, Public Image Ltd.) into the admittedly wide "goth" cabal". The 4AD scene fit in a bit more snuggily with "Gothic" rock (anyone who can't hear Siouxsie's influence on the Cocteaus simply isn't paying very close attention), but to hang the same confining title on 4AD bands as Alien Sex Fiend happily dons is to do a disservice to a stable of artists of much broader ability. In any event, during the same time period, the British music scene and the American underground were incredibly fertile spawning grounds for a whole host of new sounds, statements, movements and sub-genres. To this point, I'll lend Chaki some creedence -- there was indeed some cross-polination going on, as there are some common threads between the austere histrionics of bands like Visage and Gary Numan and the conventional Goth crowd. That said -- despite some common ground -- you'd be pretty hard pressed to call, say, skinny-tie era Talk Talk a "Gothic" band. Depressive? Surely. Sombre? You bet. Goths? Never.

In the ensuing years, it's true -- genre parameters have been blurred and re-alligned (laregly due to a revisionism and nostalgia), but "Goth" (the term itself not originally coined as anything but a spiteful pejorative) still means something more specific than simply dressing in black and playing the occaisional minor key (Cutting Crew dressed in black....are they Goths? I think not.)

Duran Duran never were Goths. Ever. Not even briefly.

Very well said and accurate, Alex.. but when so many of these bands you mentioned a) hate being seriously described as goth, and b) each exhibit a wild variety of styles -- regardless of how they were treated in the press -- then how can you defend being so rigid?

I don't think I'm being rigid. I mean the Sisters absolutely **L O A T H E** being called goths, but can you THINK of a more Gothic band than they? I'm just suggesting that just because a band (a) happens to be British and (b) sings a song or two that is slighty dark and/or downbeat, that doesn't make them Goths. Sorry. I know it must seem like I'm getting hung up on labels, but there's a difference between pigeon-holing and blind miscategorization.