Laughing at the proles: C/D?

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It would be very pretty to think so, oops, but unfortunately some people have more pissripping power than others.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 29 April 2004 15:17 (nineteen years ago) link

and you have shown that your default setting is to assume someone is being mean-spirited and completely serious.

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 29 April 2004 15:18 (nineteen years ago) link

Oops sounds like my old PE teacher who'd tell black kids to stop giving him black looks and then say "Hey, I take the mickey out of everyone!"

If this were really done, in equal measure, then maybe we'd have world peace, yes. But it doesn't work like that.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 29 April 2004 15:19 (nineteen years ago) link

TS pissripper vs. pisscutter

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 29 April 2004 15:19 (nineteen years ago) link

taking offense at something is one of the most useless emotional reactions

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 29 April 2004 15:20 (nineteen years ago) link

A reaction being useless doesn't make the action OK.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 29 April 2004 15:21 (nineteen years ago) link

Oops, you're a cunt, and we all know it. Now piss off.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Thursday, 29 April 2004 15:22 (nineteen years ago) link

Now, now. You're all cunts.

― NA (Nick A.), Thursday, 29 April 2004 15:22 (nineteen years ago) link

I was going to laugh, but then I remembered that I am mean-spirited and completely serious.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 29 April 2004 15:23 (nineteen years ago) link

Do your work!

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 29 April 2004 15:23 (nineteen years ago) link

yes everyone knows it so why do you feel the need to continually say it?

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 29 April 2004 15:23 (nineteen years ago) link

Incidentally when/where was it decided that 'Chav' was the definitive name for your baseball capped, reebok trainered youth?
I hadn't heard the word till a couple of weeks ago and now I hear it all the time.
It's long overdue I think.

― Bidfurd, Thursday, 29 April 2004 15:26 (nineteen years ago) link

When "laughing at poor people is almost impossible to do good-naturedly", isn't it reasonable to assume someone who laughs at poor people is being mean-sprited?

I don't think this is just about laughing / joking, either, it's about using class to belittle and humiliate.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 29 April 2004 15:27 (nineteen years ago) link

I blame Norman Ph4y.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 29 April 2004 15:31 (nineteen years ago) link

Many xposts later:

1. The responses to JtN are [fill in blank and win a prize]

2. I have never heard of a 'Chav'.

3. When I was growing up, it was all miners from Nottingham and council estate kids. No-one would have dared laugh at working-class people. They would never have got away with it. Whether they do now, I don't know.

4. I don't think I would like Energy Flash.

I think I find it impossible to imagine how the stuff in there about the Detroit techno scene is v. interesting.

― the bluefox, Thursday, 29 April 2004 15:44 (nineteen years ago) link

BTW, the responses I was referring to are now a long way upthread: they are not by eg. Tim H.

The prize still stands. Or perhaps it has fallen.

― the bluefox, Thursday, 29 April 2004 15:51 (nineteen years ago) link

I mean, I watch Chapelle's Show every week and laugh my ass off.

"Is Dan Perry gon' hafta choke a bitch?"

― Clarke B. (Clarke B.), Thursday, 29 April 2004 16:01 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't find Oops offensive. I can't recall an occasion when I ever have. In fact, I often find people's reactions to his jocular ways completely overblown.

As for the proles, well...um...okay, right now I got nothing.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 29 April 2004 16:03 (nineteen years ago) link

This topic though kinda hits on why I love "yo momma" jokes. They cover all bases. We've got "yo momma is so poor" jokes, "yo momma is so fat" jokes, "yo momma is so dumb" jokes, it's the equal opportunity hate comedy.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 29 April 2004 16:05 (nineteen years ago) link

My mother is dead, you asshole.

― NA (Nick A.), Thursday, 29 April 2004 16:08 (nineteen years ago) link

I come from a working class backround so I when I sometimes make fun of "white trash" etc. I feel like it's okay -- but if I hear someone who I know is from a more middle or upper class backround do it I get annoyed. I realize this is totally hypocritical and irrational.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Thursday, 29 April 2004 16:09 (nineteen years ago) link

"I got rye toast on 22s, nigga! They rollin', nigga, they rollin'! They rollin', nigga, they rollin'! They rollin', nigga, they rollin'!"

― Chris Rock (Dan Perry), Thursday, 29 April 2004 16:12 (nineteen years ago) link

I have never found oops offensive before today, for I have never bothered to read his, or her, posts.

Today he, or she, has not offended me, perhaps because he, or she, has been surrounded by other interesting posts from people I know.

― the bluefox, Thursday, 29 April 2004 17:50 (nineteen years ago) link

you're too english

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 29 April 2004 17:56 (nineteen years ago) link

I thought the pinefox was Irish, actually. I could be mistaken.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 29 April 2004 18:00 (nineteen years ago) link

same thing

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 29 April 2004 18:02 (nineteen years ago) link

now that's offensive.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 29 April 2004 18:02 (nineteen years ago) link

pinefox, perhaps what is interesting about the detroit music scene is the role of class and people in music, and also the way that detroit is something of an anomaly in american cities, and its unique heritage has meant that the sociocultural context of music is very different to that of other cities

also, some might consider it to be bad behaviour to come onto a thread and belittle and dismiss something in such terms, it certainly does you a disservice, and is somewhat disappointing.

of course there is nothing to say that you should be interested in the sociocultural context of popular music either at a geographically specific or at a wider level, and theres nothing to stop you enjoying and reading about music on a much more personal rather than cultural level

after all, perhaps it is safer to dismiss from a distance than to engage with anything outside your immediate interests. still, always refreshing to have the same dismissive one liner trotted out

― gareth (gareth), Thursday, 29 April 2004 18:02 (nineteen years ago) link

(nb:i'm only joking around, as usual)

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 29 April 2004 18:03 (nineteen years ago) link

If I could play Stardancer loud enough to obliterate this thread, I would.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 29 April 2004 18:04 (nineteen years ago) link

You could try it?

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Thursday, 29 April 2004 18:05 (nineteen years ago) link

similarly, perhaps the pinefox might find it beneficial to read and engage with posts from people outside his immediate social circle, maybe he could learn new and interesting perspectives. or perhaps, his current outlook has reached the point where there is nothing more to learn (except from 6 or 7 'geezers')

― gareth (gareth), Thursday, 29 April 2004 18:05 (nineteen years ago) link

I am surprised at the inanity of peoples attitudes to detroit techno. Or is it simply venom?

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 29 April 2004 18:10 (nineteen years ago) link

I like detroit techno.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 29 April 2004 18:11 (nineteen years ago) link

so do i. not as much as i used to though

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 29 April 2004 18:14 (nineteen years ago) link

Detroit techo is the only thing likeable about this thread, even though some of it's creators are Oasis fans.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Thursday, 29 April 2004 18:14 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh it's ok guys I know you're alright.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 29 April 2004 18:15 (nineteen years ago) link

Was there really once a mystical time in ILX's past when we were able to discuss class issues without degenerating into awfulness, or is that as rosy-eyed as the idea that we all used to sit around discussing Derrida once upon a time?

― Super-Kate (kate), Thursday, 29 April 2004 18:16 (nineteen years ago) link

I did used (use?) to do that, once upon a time. (The second thing, not the first.) I'm not sure how interesting it was, come to think of it.

Jerry the Nipper and I are starting a new breakaway board soon, called I LOVE GEEZERS.

― the bluefox, Thursday, 29 April 2004 18:24 (nineteen years ago) link

all detroit techno artists are failures though

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 29 April 2004 18:26 (nineteen years ago) link

Stop being so Larry.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Thursday, 29 April 2004 18:26 (nineteen years ago) link

I think everyone I know probably would use the Irish equivalent of Chav, which I guess is "knacker", oddly. Then again I am sort of conscious of it, I guess I only use it if someone started hassle with a friend or myself I might relate the story like "some knacker......."

I am quite conscious of casual snobbery, I hope, I think in a weird way being into clubbing and dance music and things made me more conscious of what dickheads people who harped on about "knackers" or had iffy views about them are, particularly when a common slur of the dance scene here would be "oh that's scumbag music, where's your fiat punto" etc etc etc etc.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 29 April 2004 18:27 (nineteen years ago) link

(that post didn't reveal much, PF)

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 29 April 2004 18:28 (nineteen years ago) link

To be honest, it wasn't till I read it said in Energy Flash that I realised the class element of mod-rocker thing. I like the way the Reynolds makes the oik vs. hipster thing crop up at every turn.

I did used (use?) to do that, once upon a time

I think started a thread about this grammatical confusion once.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 29 April 2004 18:46 (nineteen years ago) link

Thread result: I am downloading Stardancer.

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Thursday, 29 April 2004 20:01 (nineteen years ago) link

the hi-hats are like THUNDEROUS RAIN!

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 29 April 2004 20:14 (nineteen years ago) link

I started the thread because this issue genuinely bothers me. I do not know what the situation is like in the US, but in the UK there has been a growing increase in the use of terms like 'pramface' and 'council' as insults over the last couple of years. I find this easy way in which working class people are characterised as charver scum by the middle classes really uncomfortable. It might be intended as humour, but it seems to act as a distancer, a way of dehumanising anyone who happens not to share a particular middle class value system.

Calling oops a cunt was an attempt to offend him, after the way he belittled taking offence as a useless emotion. Probably not a wise move in retrospect.

Nickalicious, so you missed the thread where oops posted for the first time then? The great homosexuality is unnatural one?

Nicole, how dare you call me an Oasis fan!

― Ricardo (RickyT), Thursday, 29 April 2004 20:19 (nineteen years ago) link

I also should have posted something like the first paragraph of my last post as part of the question.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Thursday, 29 April 2004 20:20 (nineteen years ago) link

The class issues in the US are too busy masquerading as race issues to be dealt with as class issues.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 29 April 2004 20:20 (nineteen years ago) link

It's not you, Ricardo.

P.S. Larrys don't get offended.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Thursday, 29 April 2004 20:21 (nineteen years ago) link

Skipping 51 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

How do you pronouce "chav"? Is it short for something? What does it mean exactly?

― Mary (Mary), Saturday, 1 May 2004 01:16 (nineteen years ago) link

Gosh, class is quite the invisible issue on ILx.

Most of the time I assume its invisibility is benign, then some assholish shit like this starts up.

― Dickerson Pike (Dickerson Pike), Saturday, 1 May 2004 03:49 (nineteen years ago) link

I guess chav rhymes with have. Never heard the word before this week.

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 1 May 2004 10:54 (nineteen years ago) link

me either.
stealth marketing.
it's spreading.
north.

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 1 May 2004 11:31 (nineteen years ago) link

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