a divorce thread

Yeah, I just didn't want to sound judgy as an un-divorced person or part of an overall atmosphere of unfair received wisdom about divorce that you guys may have to deal with IRL.

Al, it's cool. I haven't really said much about it to too many of my friends or on FB. Quiet like. It's been several weeks, and I've been living on my own for two weeks or so.

It's for the best, really, but the transition has its swings emotionally. Some hours are better than others.

And yeah, you have no idea how many "can you believe how many ppl our age are splitting" discussions I've had lately.

Tipsy: I'll think on what you said up thread, seems v wise.

And now I'm with the best companion I've ever had, but I don't think I would know and appreciate that as deeply as I do without the other experiences.

Never been married, so never been divorced. But a year ago is when I had to start a breakup with the only person I'd lived with romantically all this time, and that was a wrench. But it had to happen, otherwise we would have been even more miserable the further we went. We've each found someone new since, and just speaking for myself, this sentence here rings very, very true to me. Sending best, Ray.

Echoing Ned about that sentence ringing true. It may sound dumb, but for me it was absolutely the case that learning how to be a good partner involved just that: *learning*.

My dearest friend has had a yellowing index card on her fridge for as long as I've known her (circa 1995). On it is scribbled:

Good judgement comes from experience
Experience comes from bad judgement

One thing that amazes me, and strikes me as a complete failure of art, is the way no movie/book/song has ever adequately captured the agony, misery and horror of divorce.

The only two pieces of art that ever came close for me were season 11 of Cheers and Usher's "Papers." No other work has ever really resonated with me. It's like the great artists of our time have collectively said "even we don't want to touch this."

Liz Phair's - Divorce Song?

It has a bad rap and has crappy reviews but the story of us with bruce willis and michelle pfeiffer is weirdly accurate

Though I’d imagine it’s only watchable for people who went through something similar

One thing making this a difficult task is that people divorce for reasons unique to each relationship — the devil is in the details as they say

Accurate should be “realistic,” sorry

Take a peek at Zulawski's Possession and let me know what you think.

Toni Braxton and Babyface's "Love, Marriage & Divorce" was really good I thought.

It might be that it's just something that nobody wants to think about or re-live. But still, art has gone to uglier place (grief, etc.) pretty unflinchingly.

Season 11 of Cheers is the one that cut way too close to home for me. The way Frasier desperately cycles through all these different stances (anger, sympathy, bargaining, being the bigger man, completely breaking down) to stop the inevitable from happening was brutal to watch. But obviously that's just the sanitized, sitcom version of things. Dunno anybody wants to watch more than that.

xxpost I've never been divorced (or married) but I first saw it in the wake of a hasty breakup and thought, yup, this resonates. And it was apparently pretty directly informed by Zulawski's own divorce. It's, um, brutal.

Gonna cue up those Phair and Braxton songs. Tammy Wynette's "D-I-V-O-R-C-E" absolutely nails the tragedy, but wraps it up a little too neatly. I also give Here, My Dear a spin every now and then, but that record is so petty it's hard to listen to. It captures the anger but not the trauma.

excited/terrified to check out Possession

What about War of the Roses?

That Toni Braxton/Babyface album is exquisite.

Blood on the Tracks

^ was waiting for that

bad example but a great album nontheless

Bergman's Scenes from a Marriage is good, but agree on above that the details will matter for this subject. Also, divorce probably doesn't make the best story arc for a movie...

Shoot out the Lights

I have to say that just for the joy vs. anguish aspect, Blue Valentine cut pretty close to the bone for me.

Kramer vs Kramer?
As a child of divorce, the subject holds no entertainment value to me. I suppose there’s a measure of catharsis in there somewhere but I’d rather just go for a walk

Also, divorce probably doesn't make the best story arc for a movie...

The subject definitely doesn't sell itself, but I think there's an interesting tension in just trying to survive divorce. The daily struggles and hurdles. It's not just this passive experience, it's a ton of work and obstacles to navigate. It's an enormous trial; great movies have been written about less

i think there are several cursive albums about it, but they're not really my thing

https://media.pitchfork.com/photos/5929c138c0084474cd0c32d6/1:1/w_600/07bf23e1.jpg

xp oh yeah I totally forgot about Domestica. That album does nail it, at least those specific circumstances. Not sure everybody relates to the "marriage is a battle" angle of it all but "The Night I Lost the Will to Fight" is brutal

i've been listening to turn around a lot but not because it reminds me of my divorce

it's a great track about a crappy relationship for sure though

kind of one sided though

Domestica is a good one if you experienced a prolonged bout of combative cohabitation

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/13/The_Meadowlands_%28Front_Cover%29.png

Wrens' Meadowlands is a brilliant divorce/break-up album. It's got all the messiness, ugliness, elation and disillusionment of divorce/break-up, wrapped raw and unrelentingly in blinding curveballs of songs. It's killer.

yeah it's a perfect album. Never really registered the divorce angle before somehow (maybe be I used to listen to it so long ago) but every time I revisit it I'm amazed how well it's held up

Got sad to see this thread bumped, glad it was just about art.

Not having experienced it, my guess is the reason that there are so few good films about divorce is similar to the reason that there are so few good films about lung cancer.

what would you say is the cheapest divorce you can get? best case scenario, both people don't really have anything of value anyway, no children, a desire to spend less than $50 each on it, and for it to be as quick and uncomplicated as possible. asking for a friend.

look at your local courthouse's website, they likely have something in the family law section about filing an uncontested divorce. or just go to the clerk's office (may be a separate domestic/family clerk) and ask to file one. i don't know IL law but you may have to live apart for a year first though.

i mean your friend and their spouse

Joint Simplified Dissolution of Marriage, looks like minimum 6 months separation

oh for fuck's sake, my friend will say

but thank you harbl, very appreciated

divorce laws and procedures in the U.S. are VERY different depending on which state you live in

looks like the 6 months separation in IL can be used as proof of "irreconcilable differences", but it's not mandatory.

The only grounds for divorce recognized in Illinois is irreconcilable differences, which some people call no fault divorce. Illinois law defines irreconcilable differences as the “irretrievable breakdown” of a marriage. In such a case, the spouses are required to prove to the judge’s satisfaction that there is a breakdown in the marriage, that all efforts at reconciliation have failed, and that future attempts to reconcile would not be “in thebest interests of the family.”

Irreconcilable differences can be proven by showing that the parties have lived separately for at least six continuous months prior to the divorce action.

god, i hope they don't appoint incredibly nosey judges

judge: "have you tried listening to her? have you tried treating your anger as your friend?"

i'm not sure from that last sentence if you're correct in your interpretation. the clerk or the form they give you will be able to tell you for sure. here when a year was the requirement (i believe it has changed now) you had to have a witness testify that they know you and know you were separated for a year.

i looked a bit more into it and came upon this: https://www.illinoisdivorce.com/grounds-for-divorce

these seem to be the salient parts. it looks like as long as both people are in agreement, it can go pretty quickly:

Illinois no longer recognizes "grounds" for divorce. There is only one option: "irreconcilable differences." Irreconcilable differences needs little definition. Technically, to be granted a divorce, one must prove:

irreconcilable differences have caused the irretrievable breakdown of the marriage;

past efforts at reconciliation have failed, and

future efforts at reconciliation would be impracticable and not in the best interests of the family.

750 ILCS 5/401

The Six Month Separation Period: You can live together, file for divorce, finalize it the same day you file, and go back home and continue living together. The six month separation period is not a requirement -- it is an option. Living "separate and apart" for at least six months creates an irrebuttable presumption that irreconcilable differences have caused the irretrievable breakdown of the marriage.

...

Skipping the Waiting Period: If you want to get divorced NOW and don't want to wait, that's easy enough. You need only prove the three elements laid out, above. It's simple if you both agree. You may use our Quick Online Divorce service and we'll give you a script to read to the judge at your hearing; or you may hire us to represent you in court. You'll answer 20 questions; every answer will be "yes;" ( "yes . . . yes . . . yes . . . yes"); and you'll walk out divorce. It takes about ten minutes.

divorce research typo hell #666: "you'll walk out divorce."

yeah i'm just probably being a paranoid lawyer and imagining a judge being like really skeptical and asking too many questions of people who don't wait but that's because i don't like judges and you will probably sail through with one who just wants to process 100 divorces today

but that's probably a good habit for a lawyer. :)

thanks harbl!

i think i may go full tim heidecker and represent myself in court. it will be the least expensive, quickest divorce in IL history because my partner and i are still pals and we both have a deep desire to not make this complicated at all

i'll be sure to make clear to the judge that i am going for a state record. judges LOVE that shit!

i promise it will be very mundane for the judge. they also won't let you go fast because there are questions they have to ask to make sure no one is being coerced and stuff.

i did something very similar to this (in tx)... all it took was filing the appropriate forms, get my spouse to sign off on them (we were in agreement about divorcing as simply as possible), then i went and represented myself in court. the judge asked me a few questions... just double checking about our division of assets and that we sure about divorcing. it cost me little more than a morning off work to get it done.