Depression and what it's really like

i've somehow managed to come to a very non-depressed place.

! :D

APC, maybe they will be dicks about it and gossip but the trade off will be that you might learn really good ways of coping with the anxiety it causes?

a support group for young people (primarily 18-25ish) in London who suffer from depression/anxiety etc

is this held at Wembley Stadium

glad to hear you're doing better NV. APC, I think those sessions will help, and you do not need to feel bothered by what others think. best of luck.

I teetered close to the edge Friday, couldn't stop crying, and blogged out to my friends about how I wasn't doing well. Was amazed by the outreach they all provided - knew I had good friends, but it really meant a lot.

Did a lot of things over the weekend to help fix my current state. Toxic ladyfriend started texting again and I realized all she did was make me miserable, so I broke off conversation with her, and then broke off something I was supposed to help her with. Immediately thenafter, OKCupid lady I was talking to for weeks asked me out for drinks. realized this was a large part of my misery, that I wasn't respecting myself by trying to be with someone that made me feel miserable.

also spent a lot of time with friends, which helped. still have a great deal of anxiety due to my parents, and a conversation with them that's been brewing for 13 years that I'm afraid is going to happen. and I know I still have a lot of work to do with repairing the way I view myself, and forcing myself not to negate my own needs in favor of other people's...so this perfect storm doesn't happen again.

but definitely feeling better. 2013 has been an unusually challenging year, which isn't a bad thing, but I guess I just wasn't ready for it. work, o nthe other hand, is barely a blip on the radar, has been the smoothest year at work in my entire career.

Thanks everyone. tbf my bosses have always been very accommodating about past non-brain medical appointments, no questions asked, so it's not being told I can't go that I fear, but the gossip, or that people will think I'm taking the piss, even the ones who OK it. I like most of my officemates, but the amount of cattiness and speculation I've heard about other people...

But, I've got to take what steps I can to look after myself, and as just1n3 says, practice ignoring what other people might be saying about me could be case study #1, really.

Congrats NV!

(I'm actually not in such a bad place myself right now, but I plan to take the CBT anyway, though I guess I should explain this to the therapist in the first session in case she thinks I'm a waste of time. I'm in a strange, temporary limbo, still living with my ex and getting on well enough that it's stopping me feeling the isolation which I know is waiting once he leaves or gets serious with his new gf; and I've got some underlying issues behind the depression/isolation which it would be good to work on, and maybe when the depression isn't getting in the way so much is the best time to do so. Just worried that I won't put enough effort in if things currently seem livable-with.)

Anyone have any tips on how to ask/tell my boss?

The exact tone to strike would depend on your usual relationship with your boss, but the general tone should be professional. Your boss's main legitimate concern would be your ability to complete your work assignments. Approach him or her mostly on the basis that you are looking to work out the details of how to make sure your CBT sessions do not interfere with your work or that of your colleagues any more than is absolutely required.

Keep making assurances that you fully intend to make this work out to your boss's satisfaction and that you wish to know right away if concerns emerge about the quality of your work. But don't suggest that not not taking these sessions is an option you'd consider and do not agree with any suggestion that you not do CBT or postpone it indefinitely.

If your boss resists or fails to cooperate, just thank him or her for listening to you and leave. Then contact HR, if your company is big enough. Or contact a labor lawyer if there is no one to appeal to above your boss.

aps, I don't think it's a waste of time to do it now. You can always apply the stuff you learn now to problems that may come up later. And yeah, trying to spot-fix when you're in a crisis can be a lot more difficult than just doing the work in an ongoing way (trust me, I should know)

yeah it's best to go even if you feel better. in my counseling days, I had that moment where I 'felt better', and stopped going, and then a week or two later, uh oh, crisis mode again, and now it was difficult to re-set up the appointments.

They're an hour long but with travel time I'll need 2-2.5 hours off work, every week, indefinitely, which seems a lot to ask my boss for. Anyone have any tips on how to ask/tell my boss? Also keen to avoid mentioning the whole mental health thing if possible...

it would be worthwhile getting a letter from from yr GP or psychiatrist---on letterhead that doesn't say MENTAL HEALTH ISH---saying that yr therapy sessions are medically indicated. if they were to be jerks about the situation, you'll have some documentation they'll have a tough time arguing away

im depressed but whatevs.

Shit has been rough in planet latebloomer :(

Lately, my mind has been swarming with memories of toddlerhood. These are long lost memories, never before recalled, others I have always had, but now remembered by a me who is a mother herself. They are of my home life, mostly with my mother who stayed home with me the first five years. My father worked two jobs, teacher by day, hardware store employee on nights and weekends. I really only remember him on those Sunday mornings he didn't work.

The things she would tell me when I was two and three years old have stuck with me because they were said hatefully and were cruel. Sometimes she was practically foaming at the mouth. She would tell me how she hated her sister, her mother-in-law, my father and how these people were terrible to her and I was terrible to her and just like them. I was two, three ad four years old. How terrible could I be? She once tied me up and gagged me and left me in her room with the door closed as punishment for biting my brother. I was there a long time, I remember feeling like I could die, that I was going to die, that I was being killed and it hurt that it was my mother. She later came and untied me and I reached to hug her but she turned her back and walked away angry. She chased me with a broom and broke it in half when she slammed it on the bed after I woke up early from a nap. It was so close to me, I truly feared it was me she was trying to hurt had I not moved quick enough. She kept telling the story over and over through the years that I made her nose bleed when I reached my finger into it as a baby. She said this believing, still, that I did it to her on purpose and she holds a grudge, even at our last visit she mentioned this. My own baby has scratched my face, chest, drawn blood and nearly broken my nose and knocked teeth out with her lil head. I don't know how to turn any of this into a grudge.

I could never treat A. this way. In fact, I look at tiny, adorable her and really question what the hell was going on back then with my mother. I have tried, in the past, to talk about things with her but she only turns it around and says my not forgiving her, forgetting these things, is only my way of continuing to hurt her. Our relationship is practically non-existent now. I have found websites describing narcissistic mothers and she fits it. She never stopped comparing me to people she disliked. I cut ties last fall. I have made arrangements to pick up my belongings from her place, childhood stuff, at some point this month or next. I told her what I would like to have in terms of baby photos, baby books...I truly feel now that she could destroy these things or my sibs could. To say I am not liked is an understatement.

All this has managed to worm it's way into my head, new memories, old ones and having to face her at some point. My relationship with A. is the complete opposite and I didn't know that until these memories started. I feel all these emotions I don't want to have: resentment, hatred, anger...and really hatred and anger over these new memories that my head is throwing up. There is a frustration that my sibs will never know why my mother and I are not speaking. The refuse to have anything to do with me because they see me through her eyes. She loves being a victim and has decided to be the victim of my "cruelty".

Thing is, it feels weird to no longer feel love for this woman. I use to feel sorry for her, saw her as the victim of my father's affair and his abusive behavior over the years. Suddenly last year, I stopped loving her, I also stopped feeling guilty for being who I am to her and realized my love was intertwined with guilt and pity. This is a woman who use to sing a lullaby she made up about a child who had a mother who died and now the child was going hungry, was cold, and had no mother to take care of her. It would make me cry and I would grab her neck tightly. She was always telling me she could die at any moment and created much insecurity and anxiety issues. She had no health issues. This has all managed to depress me and I want to get back to where I placed her and my sibs. I was not thinking of them much at all, now it's all here again and more... Realizing I never had a loving mother.

I'm so sorry tera - I can empathize with many parts of your story, although my experiences were never as severe. I am a big believer in cutting off family comple if they cause more pain than positive feelings, so I'm happy you've managed to do that.

im definitely feeling you in this situation too, tera. i try to look at it like its my responsibility to break the cycle and to do that i need to be the best mother I can be. i feel like its really the only redemption in situations like this.

holy shit tera, that sounds like it was horrible. i've been dealing with a similar family situation ... not as cruel as yours, but pretty nasty either way. after about a year of therapy i've finally been able to break away emotionally from my family. it's possible. it ain't easy, but it's possible to turn a corner on this and be OK. and you aren't alone with feeling these things and having to consider some seriously heartbreaking shit.

can relate, tera.

sunny is otm - your life is yours, your own your own parenthood now and you get to be all those things that your mother wasn't. that you have a baby daughter who loves you back, who you love unconditionally, that goes a long way to helping to fill that strange hole you are feeling.
ultimately I think the goal is not to right those wrongs, but just to be able to say 'that is a thing that happened to me' and know that it doesn't define who you are now.

i was kind of surprised when I learned that "emotionally and/or physically abusive mother" was a depressingly common experience for many girls growing up. if it helps, just know that you're not alone

Thank you all. I do feel better at the end of this day. Much better than yesterday. Reading your posts has helped a whole lot in making tonight better than last night.

Off and on through the years there has been counseling and therapy but it was when I wanted these people in my life and how to deal with that. I wish I had cut ties long ago but finally cutting them has felt so right. Once I get my things, all those things that I want for August and myself, I feel I will be able to move on and beyond and never look back.

Today I started to view these memories as cathartic and not menacing. I tried not to dwell on them too much and let them pass through me. These were things that were deeply suppressed, now that they are coming out, I can throw them out. Something in me must feel safe or okay with finally dealing with them.

It does help to know I am not alone. All my girlfriends have great relationships with their mothers, I always felt ashamed. I have a great relationship with my paternal grandmother though, who was 41 when I was born, same age I was when A. was born. She is wonderful.

Best wishes *t and latebloomer.

I'm actually not in such a bad place myself right now, but I plan to take the CBT anyway . . . some underlying issues behind the depression/isolation which it would be good to work on, and maybe when the depression isn't getting in the way so much is the best time to do so

Well, this... didn't go to plan.

(Absolutely not the therapist's fault but my own stupid subconscious. lol at me writing the above and then weeping so uncontrollably I could barely speak for the entire session, starting before she even asked any personal questions. Though she did act quite sympathetic and I wonder if I should say, look, don't show me any sympathy, cz sometimes I worry all of my mistakes and missed opportunities were a stupid ploy to get pity, and now I'm single and friendless there should be nobody left to put up with my bullshit any more, and maybe if that finally hits home I might begin to get somewhere.

Evidence for histrionic self-sabotage theory: I've been feeling worse since the session, maybe cz it dragged up emotions and I thought I was past this stage, or maybe cz I sniffed the scent of a new pity-prey and my subconscious went YES YES RESTART THE FUCK-UP SHOW.)

Yeah maybe I do need to get back on meds.

it's worth bringing up that you feel like you are saying everything to get pity! not because it will helpfully inform her that you are a monster of self-pity who is not to be trusted but because it's a pretty common tendency among people with the depressions and she'll be able to talk to you about it like a human being.

i say this as someone who is still pretty regularly convinced that i am a lying sack of shit who is trying to manipulate people into feeling bad for me so i can get out of the consequences of my own badness.

like, even were it true, it's not helpful.

if i recall correctly, when i was having counselling we once had a good conversation about david foster wallace's 'the depressed person' and how i thought that was a perfect encapsulation of the emotional state of 'i am a self-obsessed burden who has invented a fictional personal sadness that i use in order to make the world revolve around me because i am the world's worst'

hey c#m thank you for the thoughts. I'm glad it's not just me and I am not just some terrible attention-seeking parasite from the planet self-pity, and that I will probably not instantly be locked up in a cell marked "Histrionic Personality Disorder" on revealing my terrible inner thoughts; also I am sorry you do not see yourself as fondly as I do your ILX posts

sometimes I wonder if there would actually be a difference between actually being depressed and just deciding it was now cool to be depressed and to pursue it vigorously for the next 20 years anyway

...actually, petshopboys.jpg etc

lol and <3

if you're considering that you may be some kind of manipulative psychopath, i hope that means you're not likely to be one, since if it were true you probably wouldn't give it a second thought?

idk could be a handy getout clause, that

sometimes I wonder if there would actually be a difference between actually being depressed and just deciding it was now cool to be depressed and to pursue it vigorously for the next 20 years anyway

<3

yeah, my therapy appointment this week left me feeling about ten times shittier than I did before I went. Past week has actually not been too bad due to, I think, a. upping my med, b. trying to be more conscious about moderating my drinking, c. keeping busy/seeing a really good friend whom I haven't seen in ages, d. getting on a sort of normal sleep schedule (up before noon & in bed before 4 am most days). But yeah, there are still a butt-load of issues. I didn't feel like a pity-seeking psychopath, but more just a whiny loser asshole, though in all fairness, I think my therapist kind of sucks. She challenges me in this weird way that is not at all helpful and just makes me feel worse. Like that Girls episode, anything bad you can think to say to me, I have already thought about myself, probably in the last half hour. I don't know. Plus the org I go through I guess is strapped for funds, so I am limited to 12 sessions and have to have a clearly-defined treatment goal, whereas what I really need is kind of ongoing therapy. I don't really think this therapist is the right fit for that anyway. She is kind of therapy-light. I don't like the idea of psychoanalysis, but I need something a little deeper than what we got going on. Anyway, we were talking about my avolition and inability to set long-term goals, and she asked what my issues were at my jobs, why I felt incompetent with them or couldn't hang, so I was listing my qualms, and she was kind of snarky about listing the types of jobs that were "out," which is not what I was fucking saying, and made it seem like I was some prima donna brat. I was just saying, these are the things I have trouble with at jobs. I know every job involves some kind of compromise and bullshit, and I was more interested in exploring the poor self-image, or anxiety or whatever makes me feel like I can't deal with certain things, and maybe identify situations where I would feel more valuable and competent, and she just wasn't helpful at all. She was also super-judgy about my living situation. Oh yeah, she also sort of tried to call me out on scamming the organization that is helping my co-pay (it is for musicians), and I'm like, ok they already agreed to help me, so what business is it of hers? I also wanted to be like, look lady, I've sucked enough skanky drummer dick to qualify. Ugh, I don't know if it's worth it. I sort of started disliking this therapist last year (although the convo with her is what ultimately convinced me to try my meds). I don't know if it is just the uncomfortable process of therapy, or if it's her.

The whole thing is kind of weird though. I have a strong desire to be well-liked, and I think I'm fairly charming, so it irritates me to be in this situation where I'm sharing incredibly intimate details with someone who is only seeing this one shitty side of me. And I don't like the aspect of sort of confession, the power dynamic it sets up.

sorry for rambles

It might be her way but still, if you feel it is not helping and not bringing about change, then maybe you need to find someone else. If you feel there is a power dynamic...feeling judged then maybe it isn't a fit. You just aren't supposed to feel that way with a therapist. IMO

agreed, don't be afraid to look into another one

So this thread being de indexed... What does that mean? It doesn't come up on google searches? Ilx search function searches? Does it still pop up in sna if ppl don't have it bookmarked?

Trying to gauge how freely I can talk itt...

you should def get another therapist. searching for the right one really sucks, but having a therapist that makes you feel bad is definitely counterproductive.

I can't speak to the deindexed question, JL, but I did want to chime in re: emilys that there has been a lot of research to support the idea that it is not the *type* of therapy (CBT, psychodynamic, strengths-based, etc.) that matters most in how effective they are for any given person, but the relationship between the therapist and the client. In other words, the patient-client relationship is really important, and you should no more see a therapist that is making you feel worse than you should take a drug that is making you feel worse! I know it is hard as hell to start over with someone new, but IMO it is totally worth doing.

Anyhow, wishing you and all on this thread better waters ahead.

Sometimes you need to feel worse to get better -- I mean, I have had situations where I was sorta in denial about how much a particular thing (or lack thereof) was weighing on me and the therapist calling me on it helped me come to terms with what I needed to do, or how I was contributing to my continued depression.

But if you feel like this person is disrespecting you, then it does sound like you'd be better off with someone else

I've stopped seeing my therapist recently, because I've spent months drifting further and further away from what I was wanting to deal with, and I suggested to her that maybe we were going round in stupid irrelevant circles and were losing sight of the bigger picture which I approached her with to start with, and she just said it was up to me and if I didn't feel we were going anywhere I could just stop seeing her. So I have. And now I'm rattling the bigger picture issues around in my head, and wondering why she didn't pursue any of that, instead focussing on one stupid here-and-now issue for an hour once a fortnight that isn't going to get better or go away no matter how much I talk about it.

xps afaik deindexed just means it won't show up in search results

google search or ilx search?

google

thank you! always wondered, good to know!

Ugh, called in to work again today because I couldn't get out of bed, absolutely no energy. Went back to sleep for about another 4 hours. Happening far too often lately. When I finally managed to get up I had a minor anxiety episode about the whole thing and took some Xanax which calmed me but also relaxed me a lot and reinforced the no energy thing. Going to my GP tomorrow to follow up on minor medication changes so hopefully that helps. I'd like to start seeing psychologist again but my health plan has been cut dramatically and wouldn't cover much and I don't know if I could afford the rest. It's not *too* bad lately but I been through it enough to know I'm on a downward slope.

Xanax is helpful, but I've found it can have a depressant effect sometimes. It works on the same receptors as alcohol, so that makes sense.

i'm wasting my life

i keep saying i'm going to get my shit together. move back into the city. stop being dependent on my parents. learn to be a functioning self-sufficient human being that my friends can actually respect. but i've been saying that for years and when i come home to pick up all the junk that's bogging me down i don't even know where to begin.

i don't even know where to begin.

When a mass of problems seems too overwhelming to solve, then narrow your focus to just one. Two at most. It sounds to me like a lack of resources is probably your base problem. That's a shitty problem, because "get a job" is such a nasty portal to have to slither through and it isn't really even in your control whether someone hires you. I know the feeling. It's worse than rotten. But, like it or not, you need to solve it, because so much else rides on it.

Another piece of what makes job-hunting so dire is the way job-hunting advice is doled out by chirpy automatons who apparently believe that all-you-have-to-do-is follow this easy step-by-step plan and the job spigot will open and gush jobs all over you. Fuck that. It is not just ok to be grimly determined about the pursuit of a job, it is almost mandatory. But the U&K piece is gathering and maintaining your determination in the face of it. Getting depressed is natural, but it gets you nowhere. Good luck.

I have a job actually which I am super thankful for

i just mean i'm not good at taking care of myself otherwise

Ah. Not sure on this end what the dimensions of the problem are, but if you are capable of taking responsibility for your life in a general way, then the way forward is probably through trying and messing up until you figure it out.

This is OTM. I became self-sufficient after many years, but only after I tried and stumbled for many years. Truthfully, taking care of yourself mostly requires the ability to know what it is you need to do (ie, making monthly payments, scheduling annual checkups, renewing insurance, picking up an extra shift to get the extra $$ you need for rent, etc), documenting it (either mentally or down on paper), and then committing to take action on it. The latter part can be intimidating, especially when it comes down to tasks you're not used to doing/handling, but once you do it the first time, regardless of whether you mess up, it gets easier. and of course, asking advice of others is always helpful.

It boils down to making order of disorder - cataloging what it is that's weighing on your mind, then attempting to strategize a way to solve the problem, even if the first step involves asking someone else!

you'll get there! best of luck!

yeah. worst place to start from is trying to stare down the 'here are the ways I suck let me count them' monolith. narrow your focus down to one small aspect that can be tackled. because that builds your confidence. you feel like, oh huh that wasn't so bad what else can I do. and you do another 'productive' thing.

once you start doing things, even little things, you give yourself less opportunity to say 'ugh I'm so terrible I'm not even doing x or y or z' you can counter with 'but I'm doing subsection a, b and c of part 1 of A so I'LL GET THERE SHUT UP'

<3 it's ok lil crut. it is more horrible in your head than on the outside. it just takes way too long of a time to figure it all out.