Frank Kogan's forthcoming "Real Punks Don't Wear Black"

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Notice that I'm not going along with the view that there's something called "rockism" that's entrenched in rock criticism and that only since people formulated the term "rockism" and began a critique of the underlying premises of "rockism" have we shed ourselves of those old, entrenched attitudes. I'm seeing antirockism instead as a way of trying to make rock criticism safe for teacher's pets. Seems to me that in '65 Goldstein got along fine in extolling the Shangri-Las without having to denounce "rockism," and Paul Nelson did the same in extolling electric Dylan.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Saturday, 13 May 2006 13:05 (seventeen years ago) link

I really do have to read this but right now I'm concerning myself with actually trying to read Middlemarch fifteen-odd years of sorta trying and King Leopold's Ghost, as prompted impromptuly by a bizarre use of the phrase "Heart of Darkness" on a construction company's website. (IE "We firmly believe that the pre-construction planning phase to a project is the 'Heart of Darkness' to a project's success.") When that happens I'll feel more comfortable deploying Koganian language and asking questions...but in the meantime, my impression is that Plato, thru Socrates, was keen on demonstrating the Superwordiness of "virtue," "justice," "love" and so on?

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Saturday, 13 May 2006 13:31 (seventeen years ago) link

Actually, no, that's totally wrong. IIRC (it's been AGES since I've read them, I am NO authority on this) people in Platonic dialogues don't really tussle over whose definition of "virtue" et al. is the right one, so much as they come to see the utter inadequacy of their definitions compared to the one Socrates eventually pulls out of his hat.

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Saturday, 13 May 2006 13:37 (seventeen years ago) link

(I.e., I'm not a "music" purist who thinks music can be reduced to sound and that all other considerations can be ignored.)

Wait, are you saying there are people who believe this?

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Saturday, 13 May 2006 21:11 (seventeen years ago) link


"King Leopold's Ghost, as prompted impromptuly by a bizarre use of the phrase "Heart of Darkness" on a construction company's website"

--> this comment led me to reviews of the book found on complete-review.com, which in turn led me to Luc Sante's review, which in turn led me to Mark Twain's "King Leopold's Soliloquy", which in turn has inspired me to begin working on "King Dubya's Soliloquy" in a similar spirit

"We firmly believe that the pre-construction planning phase to a project is the 'Heart of Darkness' to a project's success."

--> and not its "Paths of Glory" or "Full Metal Jacket"?? ;)

"...I'll feel more comfortable deploying Koganian language..."

how do you differentiate between the various concepts of Koganian, Koganesque, and Koganistic? And which of these, do you think, is most likely to become a Superword?

baby beefcakes, Wednesday, 17 May 2006 16:50 (seventeen years ago) link

two weeks pass...
Woo-hoo, the Clearwater, FL library has actually ordered a copy at my request! I bought one of my own in the meantime (it's not like I was gonna *wait* or anything), but still, how cool is that?

Patrick (Patrick), Thursday, 1 June 2006 00:20 (seventeen years ago) link

ten months pass...
Dudes. New favorite crit collection.

hint--its this one.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 15 April 2007 12:34 (seventeen years ago) link

So - is the book any good? I haven't seen it on any of the bookstore shelves on my local stores but haven't been looking very hard. I love reading about music so I define 'any good' as an enjoyable read first and foremost.

I'm too old and too contrarian to actually have my opinion changed by a book of critisism, so the critic can be spouting any old blather - as long as its clean open text thats wants to engage with the reader - and I won't mind, (I'm much the same with song lyrics, I can engage with them emotionally without them even making much sense).

The reason I'm asking about the book in terms of it being any good is that I don't much enjoy reading the more serious end of US critisism, I might agree with it - Marcus on post punk, or find it so culturally closed as just to me baffling (is this common to many non-Americans or just me? Christagau's Americanismness

I once speculated on here that it didn't matter much how well reasoned a music critics writing was, it usually sparked off enough ideas to the reader to make it worth reading. Frank Kogan found the concept of somebody not agreeing with him so outlandish he suggested I was only saying this for effect, and didn't really mean it.

But just as the rockism debate has value as a debate (or it did, its really old and tired now surely?) I'm still keen to challenge "criticism" and the assumptions we make as readers... however even as an anti-criticist I still love reading a good book on music.

Sandy Blair, Sunday, 15 April 2007 18:03 (seventeen years ago) link

Sandy, the book is readable, interesting, and has a compelling take on the function of music criticism. Also - it's really easy to flip through and read out of order. I personally love non-linear criticism. Basically - I think it's really, really good

Mordechai Shinefield, Sunday, 15 April 2007 19:24 (seventeen years ago) link

Frank Kogan found the concept of somebody not agreeing with him so outlandish

What?? People disagree with Frank all the time; he not only welcomes it; he even encourages it!

It's a great book about music, by the way.

xhuxk, Sunday, 15 April 2007 19:37 (seventeen years ago) link

find it so culturally closed as just to me baffling

Not denying this might be true at times, but how is it more culturally closed than criticism from anywhere else? (My inclination would be to think that Brit-crit tends to be way more closed culturally than U.S. crit. But then I'm not a non-American, obviously.) (And Christgau's been an apostle for world music for decades, to the point that people make fun of him for it! Though yeah, he can be a bit of a Francophobe when it comes to Daft Punk reviews. And he has defended his American-centricism on occassion, if that's what you mean; hell, blues and jazz and country and rock'n'roll and hip-hop being invented here oughta count for something, right? Or am I missing your point?)

xhuxk, Sunday, 15 April 2007 19:46 (seventeen years ago) link

Brit-crit tends to be way more closed culturally than U.S. crit.

Though, I dunno, more reggae may have shown up on late '80s N.M.E. and Melody Maker year-end lists than in Pazz & Jop. That was a long time ago, though. Now it's all Brit-pop, "innit"?

xhuxk, Sunday, 15 April 2007 19:52 (seventeen years ago) link

thirteen years pass...

this is kind of interesting, primitive garage scuzz take on a more nihilistic modern lovers vibe

https://zachphillips.bandcamp.com/album/stars-vomit-coffee-shop-osr72

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 17 February 2021 18:47 (three years ago) link

I didn't know this thread existed. I feel a little self-conscious if I post a link here to a Zoomcast or to something I've written--Frank was posting whole reviews of his book!

I downloaded that Stars Vomit Coffee Shop cassette a while back--seems to have gone on Bandcamp in 2016.

clemenza, Wednesday, 17 February 2021 19:13 (three years ago) link

Didn't know that 'til I read it here; thanks for the tip.
I asked Frank about it after seeing this thread, and he says:

Zach’s a guy who had his own label, OSR, in Brooklyn* for a while and decided to do a reissue of Stars Vomit Coffee Shop. I’m sure it cost him far more than he made from it, though we actually put it together out here: I’d already done a transfer to digital and I guess what they call a remaster several years prior, and my friend Nathan at Denver Disc duplicated the discs for Zach at a discount.

I put up the old liner notes and a few new comments when the reissue came out:

https://koganbot.livejournal.com/362896.html

And, unrelated to Zach, I’d done a digital transfer of England’s Newest Hit Makers at the same time as SVCS, and as luck would have it a Leslie Singer fan by the name of Hal McGee decided in 2018 or so to stream Leslie’s early music and videos online, with Leslie’s help and permission. He’s created a very handsome site, with notes and archival photos and posters. Anyhow, here’s the link to Your Mom Too’s England’s Newest Hit Makers. I recommend you listen to the individual songs since those use my (relatively) higher-quality digital transfer, rather than the stream of the cassette at the top of the site, the cassette being a duping generation or two down in fidelity.

http://www.haltapes.com/your-mom-too.html

Also, I did the camera work and gave advice and encouragement on a couple of Leslie’s videos, Hot Rox and Smokie: Portrait of a Glitter Babe, which you can find if you scroll down here. They’re quite brilliant:

http://www.haltapes.com/gof-videos.html

And you should check out the other of her vids too, obviously.

The general site that links the rest of her tapes is here. Girls On Fire was the name Leslie used on much of her music.

http://www.haltapes.com/girls-on-fire.html

In any event, I don’t think anyone else has ever made music that sounds quite like Your Mom Too, especially the great “My Couch.”

*But I see that Zach moved to Brussels last year!

Still got all the above music on tapes: good fun stuff, not quite (at *least* quite)like anything else.

dow, Saturday, 20 February 2021 02:26 (three years ago) link


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