I think I'm w/ mark s. The guitar lover in me will always love Man Who Sold the World, but in my heart of hearts I know Lodger is his best. Many good points made above, mark re DB's singing, dave re "Boys Keep Swinging" (Belew's studio debut! already sounding like Fripp), Momus re the travelogue quality. The imaginative syncretisms really make this one stand out. I like the way he slides in more classicist elements as well - like the way the piano softly, briefly switches to double time on the chorus to "Fantastic Voyage" (probably my favorite Bowie song), or the New Orleans bass line under the chorus of "Boys Keep Swinging".
Awesome record.
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 23:39 (twenty years ago) link
― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 23:50 (twenty years ago) link
― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 23:54 (twenty years ago) link
― Erick H (Erick H), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 01:57 (twenty years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 01:59 (twenty years ago) link
― Erick H (Erick H), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 11:15 (twenty years ago) link
No really, I adore Lodger. I'd have to say that my favorite Bowie album would be Low because it has such classics as "Always Crashing in the Same Car", "Speed of Life", and "Warszawa", but Lodger has five of my favorite Bowie songs on it (namely "D.J.", "Look Back in Anger", "Boys Keep Swinging", "Yassassin", and "Repetition), plus that awesome cover with Bowie lying sprawled (with his bellybutton exposed!) in front of a background of white bathroom tiles. Mega swoonalicious. Anyway, I too am a huge fanatic of Bowie's Berlin period and think that was really his best period musically, appearance-wise, etc.
I love love love love Bowie. Even "Blue Jean" and "Absolute Beginners". My bias toward him is almost as strong as my bias toward Duran Duran.
― Innocent Dreamer (Dee the Lurker), Thursday, 26 June 2003 02:03 (twenty years ago) link
― John Bullabaugh (John Bullabaugh), Thursday, 26 June 2003 20:57 (twenty years ago) link
Isn't the title really "Heroes", though?
― Girolamo Savonarola, Thursday, 26 June 2003 21:12 (twenty years ago) link
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Thursday, 26 June 2003 21:48 (twenty years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 26 June 2003 21:52 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 26 June 2003 22:58 (twenty years ago) link
― John Bullabaugh (John Bullabaugh), Friday, 27 June 2003 03:53 (twenty years ago) link
― Sonny A. (Keiko), Friday, 27 June 2003 03:58 (twenty years ago) link
― Sonny A. (Keiko), Friday, 27 June 2003 03:59 (twenty years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 27 June 2003 08:12 (twenty years ago) link
― John Bullabaugh (John Bullabaugh), Saturday, 28 June 2003 14:03 (twenty years ago) link
You seem like a good guy and all but I strongly suggest you never say this again unless this is actually true for anything and everything in your life.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 28 June 2003 14:32 (twenty years ago) link
― John Bullabaugh (John Bullabaugh), Saturday, 28 June 2003 15:46 (twenty years ago) link
― John Bullabaugh (John Bullabaugh), Saturday, 28 June 2003 15:47 (twenty years ago) link
― Tad (llamasfur), Saturday, 28 June 2003 15:56 (twenty years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 28 June 2003 16:02 (twenty years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 28 June 2003 16:04 (twenty years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 28 June 2003 16:06 (twenty years ago) link
it's a bit of a mixed up mess to me, esp. those almost anti-popular songs on side one, but i remember as a kid seeeing it in the record stores on the shelf and thinking "what is that ?"
i was used to seeing all his other albums thumbing through the record bin (wasn't thumbing through records as the usual browsing method of the time in bins an interesting visual activity, even if it felt like you had to wash your digits afterwards), but the front/back of that album left me mystified -- and none of the songs off that album got played on the radio, so i wasn't able to place it (whereas so many bowie tracks got played on the radio from most of his other albums that his weirdo career trajectory to that point seemed straightforward) -- so this was the point where I got that "what's the guy up to & gonna do next ?"feeling, i suppose
looking back, it seems a very convincing demonstration of eno's oblique strategy thing -- the whole this way then that way non-flow of the album -- with weird jerks like 'repetition' or 'red money' or even 'fansatic voyage'(which really threw me as the first track of this strange looking record)
so to me it's a proper normal album as collection of songs, which is creepy, given how bowie is meant to produce 'concept' albums, and even if that just meant to me that his albums had this unifying cohesion (i suppose if evry album adopts this new style, then each album will seem relatively cohesive compared with other bowie albums), well this albums only cohesion was some thematic cohesion
like a series of short stories adding up to a book -- quite w.s. burroughs like (ie you put the pieces together, you make sense of this as one statement)
and it's haunted me more than most, this record, because it does cohere in this place slightly beneath consciousness, it all seems to fit, even if the music isn't pretty or majestic (in fact i think the settings and vocal-stretches make it very mock-majestc)
and then there's the sound of the record, kind of flat -- the songs don't bounce out, don't pull all the irregular rock'n'roll tricks i expect from albums involving eno -- it is like something to be read and thought about, rather than enjoyed as a series of songs
and if he hadn't been a superstar, would bowie have been able to produce this rather introspective personal, almost literary thing -- yeah, other posters have alluded by their lack of interest in this period and their opinion of it that it lacks the flash of other bowie, lacks the o.t.t. pomp and ceremony of rock and roll (that bowie returned to on the special effects and "i'm a weird guy" packaging on Scary Monsters)
maybe lacking the stylistic cohesion of similarly introspective stuff like Station to Station, it maintains the same stranger than fiction feel (as does Aladin Sane, i suppose -- funny how these albums get mentioned in 2003 so much more here than seemingly straight-forward rock, stuff like Ziggy Stardust which i presume like Let's Dance or Diamond Dogs everybody is well sick of)
― george gosset (gegoss), Saturday, 28 June 2003 18:35 (twenty years ago) link
― willem (willem), Saturday, 28 June 2003 18:49 (twenty years ago) link
― John Bullabaugh (John Bullabaugh), Sunday, 29 June 2003 02:04 (twenty years ago) link
did Ronson benefit from arranger royalties from these albums that he did have all that input on ?
just wondering, didn't Bowie "sack" the spiders from mars at some gig in the early '70s ? where does that leave guys like Ronson if he had been a major contributor ? anyone know the story here ?
should we have a Ronson thread ? (what was said about Ronson having so many creative ideas, and contributing so much to albums etc.. not enough to be credited as writer for any stuff ? i don't have some of the really early albums, but didn't B. suck off R.s guitar all the time when B. was ziggy ?)
― george gosset (gegoss), Monday, 30 June 2003 09:59 (twenty years ago) link
― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Monday, 30 June 2003 10:03 (twenty years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Monday, 30 June 2003 10:04 (twenty years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 4 July 2003 10:49 (twenty years ago) link
when I saw this thread title I thought "whoever wrote this is on drugs" and then I read, and behold, EVERYBODY's high! Even though I f'n hate "Rebel Rebel" (not through overplay - I just never liked it) I still say "Diamond Dogs" has 'em all beat for the following reasons:
1. better title2. the Chant of the Ever-Circling Skeletal Family3. "We Are the Dead" = "Fantastic Voyage" minus age + imagined age - ennui + dread = beauty, truth, truth beauty, y'all know the drill4. the strings on 1984 are better than the strings on "Lodger"5. "When You Rock and Roll With Me," a song title sure to chafe the balls of the ILX Massive, has one of Bowie's best vox EVAH6. also, because I say so
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 4 July 2003 11:43 (twenty years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 4 July 2003 11:44 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 4 July 2003 11:58 (twenty years ago) link
― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 4 July 2003 12:06 (twenty years ago) link
― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 4 July 2003 12:24 (twenty years ago) link
I'm convinced that Bowie's glam period (Hunky Dory through Diamond Dogs?) is overrated. I just don't think it has aged well. There are many moments on Ziggy that make me cringe. I truly prefer the postdisco period: Young Americans through Scary Monsters, and I really believe that Lodger is the most coherent, sustained, catchy, and innovative of all those records. I love it. I'm listening to it right now!
― J (Jay), Friday, 4 July 2003 12:32 (twenty years ago) link
― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 4 July 2003 12:44 (twenty years ago) link
"Yas-ssa-sin! I'm not! A MOOdy guy!"
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 4 July 2003 12:45 (twenty years ago) link
― J (Jay), Friday, 4 July 2003 12:52 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 4 July 2003 12:57 (twenty years ago) link
― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 4 July 2003 13:01 (twenty years ago) link
― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 4 July 2003 13:02 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 4 July 2003 13:03 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 4 July 2003 13:05 (twenty years ago) link
― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 4 July 2003 13:10 (twenty years ago) link
― russ t, Friday, 4 July 2003 13:57 (twenty years ago) link
― bob snoom, Wednesday, 9 July 2003 08:21 (twenty years ago) link
― george gosset (gegoss), Wednesday, 9 July 2003 08:40 (twenty years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 9 July 2003 08:47 (twenty years ago) link
The laid back feel given to the vocals for 'Boys Keep Swinging' makes the lies of the lyrics more obvious - Bowie as laconic con-man selling you a heteronormative male fantasy. Kind of like Vendice Partners in a booth at the back of a cocktail bar. Maybe nearby there's Neil Tennant's character from 'Opportunities'?The sped up vocals for 'Fantastic Voyage' are interesting, lending a more urgent feel to the lyrics. Doesn't mesh quite as well with the backing track though. It almost sounds like a punk song.
― you gotta roll with the pączki to get to what's real (snoball), Friday, 19 May 2023 18:09 (ten months ago) link
Blur's "M.O.R." uses the same chord progression (and had to give credit to Bowie and Eno), would be interesting to hear those vocals over these backing tracks.
― Halfway there but for you, Sunday, 21 May 2023 01:03 (ten months ago) link
ok now where's one with both vocal tracks at the same time
― ufo, Sunday, 21 May 2023 04:49 (ten months ago) link
Just play the original backing track song simultaneously with the remix!
― Halfway there but for you, Sunday, 21 May 2023 13:25 (ten months ago) link
Duh
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Sunday, 21 May 2023 13:30 (ten months ago) link