Has Led Zeppelin Dated Poorly?

Whether "people" remember KJ or not is ultimately immaterial. They never achieved the heights of popularity of either Zeppelin or Beyonce. Their own will remember them. That's all that matters.

it's kinda funny how when any other drummer plays kashmir or when the levee breaks, they play two bass drum notes on the downbeat to try to simulate his huge sound. even on that live clip it sounds like he has a delay on the kick (but he doesn't!).

xpost weren't Killing Joke, like, Nazis?

oh god

Ugh ppl we had reached a resolution here, do we need to do the poorly-reasoned baiting thing on every thread?

-- HI DERE, Thursday, February 28, 2008 5:35 PM (9 minutes ago) BookmarkLink hehe yes!

xpost weren't Killing Joke, like, Nazis?

You're a complete moron.

thanks!

No charge.

I like Killing Joke btw.

So is disliking blues-rock, bombastic vocals, and overlong solos just a 16 year-old punk rock kid thing from the late '70s, and not an acceptable approach to evaluating rock for folks of any age (as simplistic as it may seem---and yea, I know, there were punk covers of Lez Zep songs)?

Funny, I was listening to LZ's albums (first time in a while) all of last week and reached exactly the opposite conclusion ("Whoa! I'm sincerely amazed at how much I still love hearing this 20 years later!"). Now if you had said The Wall...

Matt, good point about the blues-rock stuff on the first few records -- ironically, the worst offender IMO ('Since I've Been Loving You') is still in the live set list. The one exception is 'Levee', which is so far out there by itself that it really doesn't count.

Disagree about 'Stairway' -- it's hard to evaluate objectively now because of the (over)exposure level but I still think it's right up there.

The satellite single-artist streams probably deserve a thread for themselves. I listen to a lot less XM than Sirius, but the XM Led has held up pretty well so far -- I think a lot of this is due to Plant's solo stuff, where he was making a conscious effort to not Zep it up too much. I will say that the Who channel (Sirius) never quit on me in three months, and that's even with all the recent live shows they were working in.

Without reading the thread:

no.

yep that was the consensus.

Beck hasn't even held up well to now so I don't see how he's going to hold up well in 30 years.
i don't see any reason to think it is a linear process. tastes change ins cycles and different ways. in 30 years he could be considered the greatest musician of all time, for all we know.

If anything, recorded Led Zeppelin to today's ears is surprisingly flat and two-dimensional.

Today, you'd be hard-pressed to even put that song AMONG the greatest songs in Zeppelin's catalog, much less the history of rock.

I can translate these as "... to MY ears..." and "... I'D be hard-pressed ...", right?

And if a sound has become so normalized that we take it for granted, wouldn't that make it less dated?

I really disagree about "How Many More Times?", esp considering how much truly workmanlike blues-rock there was from that era. It's quite distinctive in its structure and sounds.

Sorry, Thomas -- didn't mean to bludgeon you as a moron, but to brand someone as a Nazi is a pretty serious charge. Killing Joke are very assuredly not Nazis.

http://www.anirrationaldomain.net/images/memo/memo34.JPG

(That said, I think they became more interesting when they started doing fewer blues semi-covers.)

xpost

I agree with Dan about Beyoncé, mainly because she can sing better than anyone else on that list. I think good singing and good pipes tend to last longer, as various fashions and modes of "bad" singing lose the context that once made them urgent+key.

Incidentally, Plant's horrendous live singing voice is why I can't really deal with LZ bootlegs, no matter how great the rest of the sound is.

Beyoncé's got a longer list of catchy songs than anybody else mentioned on this thread, too!

In general, though, I don't think LZ's dated poorly at all. Moving forward, they probably just need to boost the bass a bit more in the inevitable next remastering project and they'll be good to go for another 20 years or so. Like Star Wars or something.

I can translate these as "... to MY ears..." and "... I'D be hard-pressed ...", right?

('Cause, like "Stairway" was voted #2 song of all-time in the local classic rock station's poll last year. Which suggests that not everyone today finds them flat and 2-dimensional.)

xpost Tracer, you don't think there's ENOUGH bass?

Beyoncé, mainly because she can sing better than anyone else on that list.

I'll give ya this: Robert Plant stopped being able to truly sing about two decades ago, but do you REALLY believe that Beyonce's voice is that great?? Come on, now.

xpost Alex: I know, I was being facetious in reference to both "poorly-reasoned baiting" upthread & the controversy over that there pic of yours ... no harm intended. god I'm crap at trolling :D

(ps I actually quite like Killing Joke)

KJ are goths, not nazis.

No I don't!

I haven't knowingly heard any of the remasters, though, just the original LPs.

i don't think pamela des barres qualifies as dating poorly.

Alex, listen to "Get Me Bodied" some time.

Looking at the fabled "infront of our starship" photo above, John Paul Jones should really have kept his shirt buttoned. Nobody wants to see that.

I kind of like that aspect of 70s rock culture, seriously. Stick it to the beauty myth!

also Page is staring at bonzo's cock.

haha I just noticed that.

No.

The one I always listen to is Houses of the Holy, and it still sounds fantastic. I wonder if it's just an overexposure-on-the-radio problem for Stairway et al. Also, the version of Kashmir that my baby boy listens to (rearranged for xylophones and bells) still outrocks the baby Ramones stuff.

Also, the version of Kashmir that my baby boy listens to (rearranged for xylophones and bells)

lolz we got this too. LZ better than the Rolling Stones one too

I was more of a Pink Floyd guy during my 15 year old "hey guys 70's rock with mystical symbols etc..." phase. Most of it has "dated", I guess, but that's more my taste than because of the music itself.

I probably just don't like them because of all the wannabes that populate every bar in town down here. "Dude, we were jamming today and we stopped to watched some LZ. In the middle, we just had to get up and Jam, we were so inspired..." lol college kids.

Their albums still sell legions to kids who weren't born back when the band existed. I think that speaks for itself although I am no huge fan of them.

When I was growing up in the 80s, it seemed like the popular and/or "significant" music acts in my day weren't considered in the same league with "70s rock giants," like Led Zepplin, Boston, Yes, and others (in terms of their "GREAT HISTORICAL IMPORTANCE," delivered in a low baritone). Now that so many years have passed, I wonder if any of those acts I grew up with are considered equal to those earlier groups. I mean, just limiting myself to rock acts from the 80s to present that are "big acts" or those held in particularly high-esteem, would people say that The Cure, R.E.M., Radiohead, U2, Bauhaus, Joy Division and New Order are equal to, say, Led Zepplin, Boston, Yes and big acts of that era? Define "equal to" any way that seems sensible.

I'm curious, so I am tossing the question out, but I admit I haven't had much chance to carefully craft this post (work intervenes). So if the question is stupid, my apologies.

"would people say that The Cure, R.E.M., Radiohead, U2, Bauhaus, Joy Division and New Order are equal to, say, Led Zepplin, Boston, Yes and big acts of that era?"

I wouldn't say it's even close, but that's a purely subjective viewpoint. I can't stand the former bands, with the exception of Radiohead.

lolz Radiohead as an "80s band". Actually I think REM, the Cure, and especially Joy Division/New Order are heavily canonized for being "influential" at this point.

U2 as well, but I can't stand them.

zeppelin fucking rules

Shakey: I thought I said "80s to present." If not, it should say that.

I know Radiohead isn't an 80s band.

oh haha sorry

in that case the "elephant in the room" re: your list is Nirvana

Them, too. I wasn't trying to give an exhaustive list, but I should have mentioned them.

Robert Plant stopped being able to truly sing about two decades ago

he can't scream anymore, but he sounds good on the alison krauss record.

Robert Plant stopped being able to truly sing about two decades ago

dude you need to hear the album with alison krauss, it's seriously great

ghaaa xp

The tendency to make grand sweeping generalizations based on your own beliefs is one that we all must fight, I know.

But while I can't get on board with this whole ". . . little more than a workman-like mish-mash of riffs and blues cliches" thing, this might be a good place to share the idea that for my lovely girlfriend and I, "Kashmir" is a dumb joke.

It's a wonderful injoke for us, we find it absolutely hilarious whenever we hear it, like if some ballplayer or the other uses it as his song, if we hear it at some bar or some restaurant, or God forbid at somebody's house, it's a kind of shorthand for us for "these people are stupid AND stoned."

I remember when I was in junior high, I ran into my buddy Jose at a park somewhere, maybe in Coconut Grove, he was carrying this monstrous boom box he'd just bought, had steel handles welded onto the sides it looked like, and my bud was all stoked coz he had "Kashmir" loaded up onto the thing, at a time when all of it was still new to us. He pressed play and I still remember how bombastic the drums seemed.

But in retrospect, "Kashmir" seems plodding, moronic, pretentious, and just plain silly.

I still believe that Zeppelin never made an album that wasn't great. I love "Over the Hills and Far Away" like I love anything. There's stuff on III that has never been duplicated, and "Carouselambra" is mighty.

But man, "Kashmir." It's embarassing almost.

LZ is great but tbh i don't like "black dog" at all. everything else is pretty awesome though.

SecondBassman is another Miami ILX'or (current or former)! All good.

I agree with Dan about Beyoncé, mainly because she can sing better than anyone else on that list. I think good singing and good pipes tend to last longer, as various fashions and modes of "bad" singing lose the context that once made them urgent+key.

I guess this is a decent rule of thumb but I don't know that I 100% agree with it, particularly when you consider people like Bob Dylan.

On a fundamental level, I can't fathom how any could possibly dislike Led Zepplin. Everything about them is pretty much 100% on at all times for me.

this isn't even a well-used or well-mixed 808! It sounds like shit!

^^^
Is this guy intentionally defecating on all sides of the beat?

Like I could see elements (mellotron, etc.) of No Quarter being used in a bobbins way, but this dude (gotta be a dude) wants shooting.

I love footwork but Traxman has always bamboozled me and err... yeah not a fan of this

Ok I'm not going to die on this hill, it's just a silly EP of chopped Led Zep samples in a juke context.

Buuut speaking of context...if the 'When the Levee Breaks' break sounded good in fast dance music, it would be used in fast dance music. JB's drums are huge, wide, and aggressive and so they're usually sampled at slower tempos when you want that rock energy (Beastie Boys, Bjork, blah blah blah). There's a reason why he's not sampled much in drum & bass (although sure, anything's possible).

And 808 bass/kicks/claps are not objectively worse than even the best drummer when it comes to recorded music, they're just different. There's also a reason why you hear them 1000000000x more than Led Zep drum loops, and it has to do with how effective they are, which partly has due with the sheer frequencies involved, and the cultural weight at this point. I really should not have to explain this in 2020.

Dunno, who did Led Zeppelin go out with?