Steely Dan: "Steely Dan's name has been popping up as a hip musical crush. Remember, this glossy bop-pop was the indifferent aristocracy to punk rock's stone-throwing in the late 70's. People fought

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LISTEN to Steely Dan for God's sake, how can you argue this?

LEAVE GOD OUT OF THIS.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Friday, 13 February 2004 03:04 (twenty years ago) link

SD are massively brilliant, lyrically and musically, and I think they're actually a lot more diverse than people give them credit for. It's rock/pop music as subversive satire or really wry melancholy.

This is the first time I'm squarely in Geir's corner! :o

― Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 13 February 2004 03:04 (twenty years ago) link

the opening quote is ridiculous, of course. but i wonder aloud to the people "who were there" (mistahs sinkah, kogan, and currie?) -- was steely dan one of the enemies of the punkers? i would think that they'd just have ignored them instead of actively sneering or abusing them.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 13 February 2004 03:09 (twenty years ago) link

I loved them when I saw them on tour last year. "Everything Must Go" features so many lyrics that catch my ear or crack me up, and I'm not much of a lyrics person. It's such a great concept album, like midlife crisis as metaphor for the end of the world. Or maybe the other way around.

Oddly enough, the only other Dan album I listen to regularly is "The Royal Scam," which I feel has always gotten short shrift. I once heard a DJ mix in "The Fez," and the crowd went nuts. The interview I once did with Becker/Fagen was a hoot, too.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Friday, 13 February 2004 03:12 (twenty years ago) link

that early 70's band rocked live. or at least on the stuff i've heard. i would have loved to see that.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 13 February 2004 03:13 (twenty years ago) link

they are brilliant...people often don't get what's great about them or they like them for the palatability of the music without recognizing the intricacies and ironies within. sometimes it can be as annoying for someone to like your music for the wrong reasons as it is for someone to hate it and SD is a perfect example of this.

― Etta, Friday, 13 February 2004 03:15 (twenty years ago) link

I'm not a dude.

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 13 February 2004 03:16 (twenty years ago) link

i think punks stone throwing was at what was seen as a kind of monolithic system of producing/distributing and experiencing music. i can't remember if steely dan got called out specifically.

does stewart O like steely dan i wonder?

― mullygrubber (gaz), Friday, 13 February 2004 03:21 (twenty years ago) link

I think most of us would agree that their syncapation was unlike other bands of their time. (Can't Buy a Thrill excluded) I don't hate them for that.

― jim wentworth (wench), Friday, 13 February 2004 03:23 (twenty years ago) link

"was steely dan one of the enemies of the punkers?"

The Minutemen didn't seem to think so.

Fagan and Becker's liner notes in the re-issue of "The Royal Scam" are funny and go into their way of seeing things during that time. (Do the other re-issues have similar notes? I have old cds or lps of the rest.)

― earlnash, Friday, 13 February 2004 03:23 (twenty years ago) link

Haha .. actually I think I got in some stupid bitchy argument with Stewart O on that "Talking Heads vs. Steely Dan" thread (he liked TH).

Anyway, is there anything more tired and poked full-of-holes in 2004 than received punk-rock mythology (various prog/punk ilm threads to thread; john lydon use other facts please to thread, etc)

― Broheems (diamond), Friday, 13 February 2004 03:27 (twenty years ago) link

In context, Steely Dan represented everything that punk stood against: major lable dinosaur limo-rock made by people who were technicians above feeling musicians. Jimi Hendrix has more in common with the Sex Pistols or the Clash than any of those do to Steely Dan. The music is STERILE, 70s coke-fueled self-indulgence and I have yet to find a single meaningful lyric in it.

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 13 February 2004 03:30 (twenty years ago) link

Coke, Pepsi, I don't care about that.

― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Friday, 13 February 2004 03:32 (twenty years ago) link

yer right Broheems: but when pfork (mis)uses it to malign steely dan: grrr!

― mullygrubber (gaz), Friday, 13 February 2004 03:33 (twenty years ago) link

Yeah but Orbit in context Jefferson Airplane represented the 60s zeitgeist. Who cares now?

― pete s, Friday, 13 February 2004 03:33 (twenty years ago) link

Anyway you're absolutely wrong; SD are punk like William Burroughs

― pete s, Friday, 13 February 2004 03:35 (twenty years ago) link

Just listen to the sneer in Fagen's voice, the brittleness of tracks like Your Gold Teeth and Razor Boy, the nihilism of Katy Lied and the Royal Scam, the decadent subversion of Gaucho

― pete s, Friday, 13 February 2004 03:40 (twenty years ago) link

This reminds me that I need to rip all of the Steely Dan albums and put them on my iPod as soon as possible.

― Andy K (Andy K), Friday, 13 February 2004 03:43 (twenty years ago) link

After that I'm gonna stand in front of the mirror and practice my Fagen sneer.

― Andy K (Andy K), Friday, 13 February 2004 03:46 (twenty years ago) link

Pharell likes them. So that makes them cool again. Actually, though, they were (mostly) always cool.

― Playa Hata, Friday, 13 February 2004 03:48 (twenty years ago) link

Actually it could just be the way his face is built (or how the wind blew it).

x-post

― pete s, Friday, 13 February 2004 03:49 (twenty years ago) link

Anyway, is there anything more tired and poked full-of-holes in 2004 than received punk-rock mythology (various prog/punk ilm threads to thread; john lydon use other facts please to thread, etc)

amen.

what's always amusing to me about folks who use the pistols or lydon as a crutch for bashing stuff like steely dan (or anything else) is that it's doubtful that the crutches themselves were thinking the same way. i mean john lydon was a fan of CAN, NEU!, and CAPTAIN BEEFHEART ... it's not THAT great a leap from those guys to steely dan. do these people who trot out the pistols or whatever class of '77 punk group ever really THINK?

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 13 February 2004 03:49 (twenty years ago) link

You're forgetting Donna Summer, one of his faves. Remind me what the rockists' reaction to disco was again?

― pete s, Friday, 13 February 2004 03:52 (twenty years ago) link

The Minutemen didn't seem to think so.

What does this mean? Enlighten me!

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Friday, 13 February 2004 04:52 (twenty years ago) link

orbit your arguments are the rhetorical equivalent of 'major lable dinosaur limo-rock'

― g--ff (gcannon), Friday, 13 February 2004 04:58 (twenty years ago) link

For me the kind of band where the best-of is plenty (though I do like it.)

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 13 February 2004 05:04 (twenty years ago) link

I purchased "katy lied" from a flea market because of the Minutemen cover of "Dr. Wu". I wanted to hear the original and I ended up enjoying the record way more than I thought I would. I think they (Steely Dan) are another victim of classic rock radio's tendency to over-play certain songs.

― chad (chad), Friday, 13 February 2004 05:07 (twenty years ago) link

Downloaded some Steely Dan, and although I enjoyed the muscianship, and some songs had some funk, a lot of them seemed too much like the default song that comes with recording software or something. Too detached, and I'm not a fan of the lyrics, but I must still admit they occasionally got it all right.

― David Allen (David Allen), Friday, 13 February 2004 05:31 (twenty years ago) link

Orbit, the idea that Steely Dan are 'unfeeling musicians' is just sooooo wrong...

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Friday, 13 February 2004 07:27 (twenty years ago) link

some things are subjective, and that is *exactly* how they strike me.

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 13 February 2004 07:29 (twenty years ago) link

Haha, I remember when I liked Steely Dan before they were a hip musical crush.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 13 February 2004 08:35 (twenty years ago) link

i am genuinely baffled.

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 13 February 2004 08:41 (twenty years ago) link

Well, this thread has inspired me to listen to the Steely Dan mp3s that are on my iTunes. It's nearly 3 am, and I'm a little drunk, and "Doctor Wu" sounds really fucking good right now.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 13 February 2004 08:44 (twenty years ago) link

wow that pfork quote is like history written with lightning, except it's wrong

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 13 February 2004 09:09 (twenty years ago) link

the worst thing abt it is that it's reduced some of us to actually 'calling sides' in this nonexistent musical-generational war

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 13 February 2004 09:13 (twenty years ago) link

One more vote for the Dan! Oh and the re-issue liner notes are beyond classic.
I guess complaining about the slick sheen is slightly besides the point, as they were working within a well-defined genre, while at the same time subverting it. Sure it's 'coke-fueled self-indulgence' but that's the whole point. Kind of like .

― Baaderist (Fabfunk), Friday, 13 February 2004 09:14 (twenty years ago) link

They're no more unfeelingsounding than Miles Davis, surely? And prob a lot MORE feeling in reality than him, there're too many "feelings" going on here

― Silly Sailor (Andrew Thames), Friday, 13 February 2004 09:16 (twenty years ago) link

'Deacon Blues' is pure 'feeling', man

― Baaderist (Fabfunk), Friday, 13 February 2004 09:17 (twenty years ago) link

amateurist otm!

― mullygrubber (gaz), Friday, 13 February 2004 09:18 (twenty years ago) link

Yeah I'm just wondering what Orbit means, I love Steely Dan. I'd nominate "Any Major Dude Will Tell You" too. They're both v v slick (which doesn't bother me) tho, which seems like the problem for a lot of people.

― Silly Sailor (Andrew Thames), Friday, 13 February 2004 09:18 (twenty years ago) link

The review from which this quote was taken struck me when I read it at the time as funny and a good, though wrong, bit of writing.

Can't Buy A Thrill has been one of the things that's got me through a fairly intense last week. The great thing about them is of course you can listen to them as just a bunch of coke-raddled musos practising their licks and it's very soothing if you do.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 13 February 2004 09:28 (twenty years ago) link

wow i didnt knew anyone could be so wrong until i read orbit's posts in this thread! Steely themselves mention their backlash in regards to punk rock in the Citizen Steely Dan box set liners. ill try to dig em out.

― Pablo Cruise (chaki), Friday, 13 February 2004 09:49 (twenty years ago) link

Actually I'm not sure the review WAS even wrong about Two Against Nature.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 13 February 2004 09:50 (twenty years ago) link

i was driving west down Sunset this evning and Babylon Sisters came on the radio and the lyrics say "drive west on Sunset to the sea turn that jungle music down." and it felt amazing.

― Pablo Cruise (chaki), Friday, 13 February 2004 09:54 (twenty years ago) link

Larry Carlton's solos rule.

― Pablo Cruise (chaki), Friday, 13 February 2004 09:55 (twenty years ago) link

i have never heard a steely dan song in my life. i imagine them to be somewhere between bob james and the eagles and hall & oates? i'd like to hear them though, perhaps i will get some at the weekend

70s coke-fueled self-indulgence and I have yet to find a single meaningful lyric in it.

this quote does make them sound very good, sort of like summer 73

― Stringent Stepper (Stringent), Friday, 13 February 2004 11:26 (twenty years ago) link

"i think punks stone throwing was at what was seen as a kind of monolithic system of producing/distributing and experiencing music. i can't remember if steely dan got called out specifically."

Absolutely right Gaz. Actually the only people I can remember mentioning SD specifically around the time did so in positive terms - albeit maybe as some sort of guilty secret!

"does stewart O like steely dan i wonder?"

Indeed I do.

"Haha .. actually I think I got in some stupid bitchy argument with Stewart O on that "Talking Heads vs. Steely Dan" thread (he liked TH)."

Actually I was perfectly clear that I like both bands - the point was that you didn't like TH and seemed intent on starting some stupid bitchy argument because you were apparently unable or unwilling to assimilate the possibility that I (anyone?) could possibly like both!

"Anyway, is there anything more tired and poked full-of-holes in 2004 than received punk-rock mythology"

Very true; the problem is that "received mythology" played such a huge part in the development of punk almost from the word go, that it's almost certainly impossible - and quite definitely pointless - to even attempt to separate the two.

In context, Steely Dan represented everything that punk stood against: major lable dinosaur limo-rock made by people who were technicians above feeling musicians.

Again that's pretty much what SD were seen as representing as far I can recall. Let's remember the crucial role that the word "IN CONTEXT" and "REPRESENTED" are playing in that sentence 'though, shall we?

"john lydon was a fan of CAN, NEU!, and CAPTAIN BEEFHEART ... it's not THAT great a leap from those guys to steely dan."

It may not be that great a leap in many respects 'tis true; but in context, in terms of what those different acts represented at that moment in time, you could have been forgiven for believing that there was a vast, yearning chasm between them.

"the worst thing abt it is that it's reduced some of us to actually 'calling sides' in this nonexistent musical-generational war"

Amen.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 13 February 2004 12:26 (twenty years ago) link

i imagine them to be somewhere between bob james and the eagles and hall & oates?

On the surface, you might think that because of the backup singers. But listen harder - nowadays I hear the Mothers of Invention more than anything.

― dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 13 February 2004 12:39 (twenty years ago) link

Osborne you post like a motherfucker, thanks

― Silly Sailor (Andrew Thames), Friday, 13 February 2004 12:41 (twenty years ago) link

"Osborne you post like a motherfucker"

Should I (or indeed my former English teachers) be pleased about that... or not?

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 13 February 2004 12:43 (twenty years ago) link

Skipping 3009 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

i just got this email TODAY

https://i.imgur.com/YAa2514.png

― omar little, Thursday, 23 November 2023 02:10 (four months ago) link

Barry Town obviously

― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Thursday, 23 November 2023 02:26 (four months ago) link

Wish they had gone into Steely Dan solo projects as well, if only to nab the mango cooler from Morph the Cat.

― peace, man, Saturday, 25 November 2023 17:21 (four months ago) link

If you wanted to see the killer "Show-Biz Kids" Midnight Special clip in its original context:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0PLCH0TYB0

BILLY PRESTON! BO DIDDLEY! NED DOHENY!

― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 29 November 2023 02:14 (four months ago) link

They play My Old school at the end too

― calstars, Wednesday, 29 November 2023 03:14 (four months ago) link

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