Lorde (from New Zealand)

She's anti-bling-bling

I like this song. How's the album, if anyone's heard it?

No. Title Writer(s) Producer(s) Length

1. "Tennis Court" Ella Yelich O'Connor, Joel Little Joel Little 3:18
2. "400 Lux" Yelich O'Connor, Little Little 3:54
3. "Royals" Yelich O'Connor, Little Little 3:09
4. "Ribs" Yelich O'Connor, Little Little 4:18
5. "Buzzcut Season" Yelich O'Connor, Little Little 4:06
6. "Team" Yelich O'Connor 3:13
7. "Glory and Gore" Yelich O'Connor, Little Little 3:30
8. "Still Sane" Yelich O'Connor 3:08
9. "White Teeth Teens" Yelich O'Connor 3:36
10. "A World Alone" Yelich O'Connor 4:54

i have mad respect that a 16 year old wrote all the songs on her new album. it doesn't seem so manufactured as a lot of these type of things are.

Ugh, had forgotten Lorde is enabling Joel Little's career.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjF5bVQLXbI

now it's number 3 with a bullet on the Hop 100 chart. the two songs ahead of it don't have a bullet, so it's very possible this might become a number 1 hit.

h8 this song

― The Reverend, Wednesday, September 11, 2013 5:01 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^

the crushing inevitability of this going #1 somewhere hit me on first listen. that is not a compliment

a year ago america thought it had dodged the lana del rey bullet, now we have ldr AND a younger artist openly influenced by her in the top 10 at the same time

Lorde would maybe take issue with the Lana comparison:

As a young woman, have you felt it necessary to call attention to the control you’ve taken over things? Or to remind people that you’re both a writer and singer?

Absolutely. I think a lot of women in this industry maybe aren’t doing so well for the girls. I’ve read interviews where certain big female stars are like, “I’m not a feminist.” I’m like, That’s not what it’s about. She’s great, but I listened to that Lana Del Rey record and the whole time I was just thinking it’s so unhealthy for young girls to be listening to, you know: “I’m nothing without you.” This sort of shirt-tugging, desperate, don’t leave me stuff. That’s not a good thing for young girls, even young people, to hear. I don’t really have any girls songs (for the new record). I should have. But I think the way in which I assert myself as not being about that stuff is by writing about it in a way that’s a bit less obvious and less cloying. There are a couple songs on the record about relationship-y stuff, but I make sure to write about it in a way that you don’t know if it’s a friend or a relationship, because that’s something that’s personal to me.

Yeah Katherine, I felt the same foreboding sense of inevitability when I first heard it. And apparently this migrated over from rock radio? Not sure what it has to do with rock other than being EMPHATICALLY NOT RAP. Greer pointed out on twitter that the two surprise breakout artists of this year both came out explicitly shitting on hiphop.

Speaking of which, is Macklemore getting played on rock radio? Seems just as inevitable.

I think Lorde crossed over from alt radio, not rock.

Speaking of which, is Macklemore getting played on rock radio? Seems just as inevitable.
I don't know, but I know Classified's Inner Ninja was getting played on Rock stations this year here in Canada.

I think some of you have got the wrong impressions about this girl.

1. How is she 'explicitly shitting on hip hop' - read the interview upthread. She likes hip hop. I think she might be attacking the culture surrounding it but not the music itself. See her do Kanyes Hold My Liquor verse from a concert last week here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6IerJU-gPE

2. Comparing her to LDR also does her a disservice. For a start she does not trade in the sexed up pouty 'I am mans plaything look of LDR. She is no airhead.She seems much more self aware and in control. For a sixteen year old girl - in fact probably compared to most adult pop artists right now - she seems smart and intelligent. Again see interview upthread.

I am not totally in love with this tune or her biggest apologist by any means but think that some of the comments on here are either thougthless, ignorant or just wrong.

i still think that people who think she's "shitting on hip hop" are giving the song as shallow as reading as the people who were up in arms about "blurred lines"

[i also think it depends on a decade-old reading of cultural politics w/r/t "rap vs. rock," etc]

[not to say that like, 30 yr olds listening to it couldnt read that into it! but]

Well speaking as someone terminally bored by Lana, even I recognize the inaccuracy of calling Lorde "much more self aware and in control" when Lana's entire aesthetic is clearly both self aware and something she developed by choice. Not to mention that defenses of female artists that seem to heavily rely on the the media spin of "she's not like those other women, she's <insert qualities other female popstars are stereotypically presumed to be lacking here>" always rubs me wrong.

New track btw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g03b4U_aPk

Yellich says herself that she is tired of this comparison too - but what can she do - its an inevitable question. One which I think is erroneous and unnecessary but this is how our media works, sadly.

As for your criticism of 'much more self aware and in control' perhaps my choice of words was poor there. When I read the interviews and lyrics for Lorde it has struck me that she is remarkably self aware, perceptive and yes - in control - at least of her own lyrics and world view. Maybe that is just a media front. In LDR's case -I guess I can't remember the last time I was interested enough to read anything by her or listen to one of her songs so maybe I am coming from a point of ignorance there. The last time I saw her she was on the arm of Axl Rose.

But yes Lorde - its a kind of fairytale for sure.

I think Lorde crossed over from alt radio, not rock.

― Greer, Saturday, September 14, 2013 3:54 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I wasn't drawing a distinction between the two. (Not sure what distinction that would entail either. Modern rock = alt, right?)

idg the Lana comparison at all. Seems really tossed out there.

. She likes hip hop.

So does Macklemore!

Nittlepicker, I was actually going off of the interview you posted way upthread where she says she wrote "Royals" when she was "listening to a lot of Lana Del Rey"

Hey some doodle. Yes she did and then listed her issues with her shortly after But I take your point that she is indeed 'openly influenced' by ldr even if she does not really seem to respect her all that much. Still don,t see any evidence of her hatred of hip hop. Perhaps there is a quote in the same interview 'I hate hip hop and plan to shut all over that art form for the rest of my career. I will have to go back and reread.

Shit that is

the way she talks about it in the youtube description makes it sound like she intends it more as a criticism along generational lines rather than along genre lines in any event

this is what i always felt. granted, the first time i encountered the song was via the youtube video with that description, which i read nearly immediately - and it certainly informed the way i listened to it. maybe i wouldn't have heard it the same way otherwise. i see it as very much in line with lyrical themes in pop that have been going quite strong in the top 40 since 2010 or earlier -- modest ambition, lack of money -- though stripped away from the typical "omg we're partying and having a good time!!" themes that they've commonly been seen alongside.

idk i guess what i am saying is that it never struck me as potentially anti-hip hop until i heard that other people were seeing it that way. even now, i think w/o the mention of gold teeth (and maybe cristal i guess) it would likely not set off many (if any) alarms. but maybe if it requires so much bending over backwards to defend, it actually is problematic?

Huh, if this is #3 on the US Hot 100, does that mean it's surpassed "How Bizarre" and poised to beat "Don't Dream It's Over"?

I'll bite: I find (what I think is) max's reading to be tenable but even assuming that the song is 'anti-bling', is that a terrible thing? When blingy hip-hop and pop are everywhere, why is it a problem for someone to write a song about growing up poor and not being able to relate to those themes? (I assumed "tripping in the bathroom" was a Miley/pop reference?)

Like, it's not like the song is saying e.g. "talking in rhythm isn't music" or "they don't even play their own instruments".

"Every song's like gold teeth, Grey Goose, tripping in the bathroom." I literally do not know what else this could be shitting on besides hip-hop, especially when you throw Maybach in as well. It makes the song very disingenuous when she sings "we didn't come from money."

Yeah, I agree that "gold teeth, Grey Goose" is probably about hip-hop lyrical themes. I'm more interested in this question (regardless of whether or not the rappers themselves came from money):

When blingy hip-hop and pop are everywhere, why is it a problem for someone to write a song about growing up poor and not being able to relate to those themes?

I don't listen to a lot of hip-hop by ILM standards so assume that you need to explain this to me.

It makes the song very disingenuous when she sings "we didn't come from money."

Why?

I don't know if it's so much "shitting on hiphop" as the mere presentation of a juxtaposition. Like, there isn't necessarily pejorative in there.

It's more like "I am a teenager from New Zealand, I hang out with my friends for fun, and from my perspective hiphop and bling culture is a surreal thing"

Maybe that's naive, IDK. But i'm very hesitant to tar her with the same brush as macklemore given that she's a kid from NZ as opposed to an American dude who's been kicking around the hiphop scene for the better part of a decade.

I mean, nobody on top 40 is going to come out and say "I will make it my goal to KEEP HIP HOP DOWN!" -- actually, no, I take that back because I would not be stunned if someone ever decides to -- but songs don't exist in a vacuum. It is not an accident which artists cross over to Top 40 (I don't know whether this is there or not) and which don't. (Literally, it's not an accident thanks to the Billboard changes.) And when one of the songs that has crossed over, possibly in lieu of hip-hop, explicitly draws lines like "our friends and I, we've cracked the code" and "that kind of lux is not for us, we crave a different kind of buzz," I don't think it's a mistake to question how exactly that will be received.

(And, like, everyone in hip-hop was also a teenager??? And their experience of growing up poor would probably be a lot different than Lorde's musical frowny face about counting her dollars on the train.)

Also, an acoustic Kanye cover is evidence of something, but maybe not of what you say it is? (

And it's disingenuous when she sings "we didn't come from money" because she is setting up an analogy in which rappers are landed old-money nobles and she and her friends are the downtrodden, poor, scrappy underdogs, but underdogs who are secretly knowledgeable about THE TRUE MEANING OF LIFE -- and if you don't instantly see how that is a fucking stupid analogy then I have no idea what to say.

But every song's like gold teeth, grey goose, trippin' in the bathroom
Blood stains, ball gowns, trashin' the hotel room...
But everybody's like Cristal, Maybach, diamonds on your time piece.
Jet planes, islands, tigers on a gold leash.

man those blood stains and ball gowns!! such an obvious and biting criticism of hip hop!

well you're right, it's definitely not wrong to question how this will be received -- even based on its positive coverage i'd say there's a questionable relationship between the song's reception and hip hop. and yes, systematically songs like this will be favored candidates for crossover over even the biggest rap hits at the moment for regrettable reasons (that i am glad ilm discusses at length). but i'm still unsure of whether this is actually inherent to the song's lyrical content.

but again, if it requires this much defense, maybe there is a problem? it's like how so many people were doing those critical interpretations of "blurred lines" as promoting rape culture that involved actually misreading and selectively quoting the lyrics -- and yet there was probably still something to be said about that angle, given the way the song was promoted.

the reason "blood stains, ball gowns" is a non-sequitur out of context is because it is a non-sequitur in context, because "Royals" is poorly written and isn't entirely clear what it's about, because it was written by a 16-year-old. it isn't like blurred lines at all because at least blurred lines had an, uh, consistent throughline, whereas Lorde is just throwing images around, the largest category of which are clear "Price Tag"-like digs at hip-hop.

And it's disingenuous when she sings "we didn't come from money" because she is setting up an analogy in which rappers are landed old-money nobles and she and her friends are the downtrodden, poor, scrappy underdogs, but underdogs who are secretly knowledgeable about THE TRUE MEANING OF LIFE -- and if you don't instantly see how that is a fucking stupid analogy then I have no idea what to say.

OK, I see what you're saying there. Fair point.

It's likely naive rather than disingenuous, from Lorde's end of it, but yeah.

Hey some doodle. Yes she did and then listed her issues with her shortly after But I take your point that she is indeed 'openly influenced' by ldr even if she does not really seem to respect her all that much.

― Hinklepicker, Saturday, September 14, 2013 11:12 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

damn, chill. all i'm saying is, my post was about there being a LDR song and a song that is literally 'post-Lana Del Rey'/LDR-infleunced song in the top 10, which i don't think can really be argued against if Lorde said she was listening to a lot of LDR when she wrote her hit. whether or not she thinks Lana is a genius or was offering a rebuttal/critique.

idk though, i guess you see what i meant, n/m. but whether or not the song is necessarily bashing hip hop/materialism, i find its sentiment kind of corny.

"idg the Lana comparison at all. Seems really tossed out there."

her voice and phrasing are very similar at times, also

"But every song's like gold teeth, grey goose, trippin' in the bathroom
Blood stains, ball gowns, trashin' the hotel room...
But everybody's like Cristal, Maybach, diamonds on your time piece.
Jet planes, islands, tigers on a gold leash."

vs

"Swimming pool glimmering darling
White bikini off with my red nail polish
Watch me in the swimming pool bright blue ripples you
Sitting sipping on your black Cristal
Oh yeah
And I'm off to the races, cases of Bacardi chasers
Chasing me all over town"

etc and hundreds of other lyrics on the LDR album that celebrate decadence

I agree that they have utterly and totally different takes on this though (Lourdes being a critique and LDR seemingly a celebration, although I don't actually think it's a celebration)

well yeah LDR also has a... fraught relationship to hip-hop images

yes definitely

I like "Royals" and I think it's more a reaction to the pop-hedonist fantasy than anything else -- like, that's your fantasy, not mine, your fantasy's boring and we've heard it a million times. I agree that it's more a generational thing than a genre thing. For a kid, I'm guessing all that Cristal-Maybach stuff registers not as hip-hop culture but as pop culture, albeit the somewhat embarrassing pop culture of, if not your parents, at least your older siblings.

But of course I was sold on her when I heard the Replacements' cover, so my own biases are in play here too.

I feel like somewhere around the early-to-mid 2000s, hip-hop culture and general pop culture were the same thing or at least pop borrowed pretty liberally from it, so the "it's just pop culture, not hip-hop" response doesn't really work for me, because where do you think the pop cultural interest in Maybachs, grey goose, gold teeth, Cristal, etc. came from? C'mon.

extend that to mid-to-late 90s too.