33 1/3 Series of books

no, it was in the olden days, before everything was a joke.

I heard Carl Wilson give a talk at the EMP that overlapped with some of his Celine Dion book; it was very funny but also very, very sharp and seemed to model a best case scenario for a music criticism that doesn't just narrowly advocate for aprivate pleasure but makes you think about broader aesthetic questions in a juicy, immediate way. I'm so stoked to read his book.

^^^OTM.

im stoked for it too as it's about, you know, quebec and stuff and cultural things i think about a lot.

I wasn't excited at all for Wilson's book and I'm still skeptical of it. But reading that clip reminds me that his writing might actually be able to transcend the patronizing approach to the album.

A little bird from Continuum has told me that if you mail this address:

letstalkaboutcel✧✧✧@ya✧✧✧.c✧✧

...you'll be able to receive a PDF of the first two chapters of said Celine book, gratis.

(You can guess what the last three letters are in the main part of the address. And yes, it's yahoo.com)

transcend the patronizing approach to the album.

What makes you think the approach to the album is patronizing?

Isn't the whole premise of the book, writing about an artist/album he hates instead of one he likes and has listened to many times, and "teach himself to love her music," kind of inherently patronizing? It might yield some interesting results as a writing exercise, but c'mon, it's not exactly a stretch to call it patronizing.

I still don't see that. Maybe I don't understand the premise, but from reading Carl's blog, I was under the impression that the book was about trying to understand what people see in Celine Dion and to use her as a site of contestation about the nature of taste and aesthetic judgments. I find it to be a remarkably open-minded approach, to go in with the attitude of "maybe I'm wrong about this woman who's loved by millions of people."

Yeah, I don't really know the writer's work much and obviously haven't seen more than the excerpt linked above. I'm just saying, the advance descriptions of the book made his mission sound a little patronizing. I definitely think there's something noble in writing thoughtfully about popular music that critics don't often give a fair shake, but also I feel like there should be at least a shred of unironic affection for it there to begin with. And I somehow doubt that Wilson continued to listen to Celine's music much after he finished the transcript, or that any of the non-Celine fans who read the book will suddenly start buying and enjoying her albums because of it.

Carl Wilson is a big thinker, so I'd be inclined to read whatever he had to say about Celine Dion without pre-judging it on the basis of descriptions or hatred of the artist or whatever. I don't always agree with Carl's opinions but he's always worth reading.

Yes. I just read those first two chapters, courtesy of Ned's secret e-mail address, and he's just so sharp and his writing so lively, I'm really looking forward to reading more.

Alex in Baltimore OTM.

I don't really see Carl Wilson going for big thinking here, or even being particularly open minded. At best I give him credit for honest, intellectual curiosity but at worst it seems a bit cynical. I mean, is it really that hard to understand the appeal of Celine Dion or is the real point of the book going to be savaging the taste of the masses? I'm just a little suspicious, just as I would be a top-tier food critic reviewing McDonald's. The approach may not be patronizing, but it's definitely a little condescending.

But again, what I've read of the book has impressed me thus far and Wilson's a great writer.

Yeah I'd be a lot more inclined to be suspicious if that little excerpt didn't read so well.

As a Canadian writer, Wilson is in a good position to compare and contrast Quebecoise Celine Dion and R&B singers, both the choices in music and production that they make and how critics see them (and, similarly, what can be seen as the "tackiness" of the surface of African-American and Quebecois pop music).

I mean, is it really that hard to understand the appeal of Celine Dion or is the real point of the book going to be savaging the taste of the masses?

I don't get this from the excerpt at all! Is attempting to understand something foreign inherently condescending?

Sounds like an interesting and novel approach to me.

Is attempting to understand something foreign inherently condescending?

DON'T YOU KNOW THAT EVERY ATTEMPT TO DO THIS IS AUTOMATICALLY AN EXERCISE IN OBJECTIFYING AND EXOTICIZING STUFF??????

(cough)

Maybe.

I mean, I'd rather read Carl Wilson grappling with aesthetics than read some of the slobberfests that pass as entries in this series, even when they're about albums I love.

I don't get that from the excerpt either Alfred. I'm referring to the concept in general. And in that regard, this series of books pretty much deals exclusively with albums that are or were critically adored. They're cool, they have a degree of hipness or seem to be part of some sort of accepted canon. This album was picked because it is in many ways, the antithesis of all that. And that context is critical for reminding us of the disconnect between critics and the masses; does Wilson wonder what he's missing as a critic or is his critical assessment ultimately right and therefore, the people who blow money on Celine are stupid? I don't trust (or am not interested in) too many people to write about that subject without sounding like a prick.

As for the question of that disconnect, it's something that's been asked since, like, forever. But clearly Wilson's one of the writers who can probably glean some good insight and hopefully this book is going to be a great one. jaymc OTM.

yeah y'all are following some wonky-ass map where "not initially understanding something's appeal" automatically leads "to appreciating it in some ironic/patronizing way."

Mr. Weiner already said it, but again, the "patronizing" thing was based more on the overall concept than the writer/excerpt. Obviously, Wilson has found a way to approach Celine in a thoughtful and personally resonant way. But if I was at 33 1/3 and got a pitch for someone sayins "I want to write a book about Creed [or some other obvious popular but widely reviled artist] because I hate them," it'd probably have to be a pretty great pitch for me to say yes. But then, like jaymc says, it's still automatically more interesting than another sloppy blow job for an album that everyone who might possibly like it already owns and thinks is great.

And I somehow doubt that Wilson continued to listen to Celine's music much after he finished the transcript, or that any of the non-Celine fans who read the book will suddenly start buying and enjoying her albums because of it.

-- Alex in Baltimore, Thursday, October 4, 2007 4:13 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Link

so unless he's helping move albums it's a condescending project? wtf??

sorry massive xpost.

and i know i was deliberating misconstruing you a bit here.

i mean, deliberately.

you don't say.

Just as FYI to everyone Powells in PDX is running a buy-two-get-one-free sale on the series. (I picked up a lot of them)

I've stopped buying these altogether, the bad ones are too depressing to wade through to get to the one or two good ones...

I'm about to read the MBV one. Pixies, GBV, Smiths, Magnetic Fields and Neutral Milk Hotel ones were all good.

I was very disappointed by the Radiohead and Tribe books, and I was 50/50 on the Magnetic Fields one. But I'm psyched for the three that are allegedly coming out in December - Celine, Tom Waits, and Throbbing Gristle.

I haven't seen anything about the Another Green World book. Is that still in the works?

This series will only get really good (as it is starting to) once all the obvious ones have been covered.

Jeez, Geeta's Eno book is still almost a year away according to this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Brian-Enos-Another-Green-World/dp/0826427863/ref=sr_1_1/202-6023791-6219064?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1193762572&sr=1-1

Can't wait to read it--her chapter in Marooned is one of my very favorites.

She hasn't been blogging much lately. I think she's busy teaching (and maybe working on the book).

From my book-waiting experiences, Amazon.co.uk's pub dates are even more unreliable than the US site's, so who knows?

Hmm, December 15, 2007 according to the US site. That seems fa more reasonable.

like the prince SOTT one. just read the sly - riot one, which wasnt as good. too theoretically/analytically spotty, and prone to a bit too much 'this is my life experience so its the TRUTH' zeal. he seems to be more of a hip hop expert than a soul/funk one, going on what ive read of his before.

anybody read the big pink novella? in principle i'm not against such a thing, but i found it frustrating

I quite enjoyed the Big Pink novella, Billy. Found some of the dialog a bit too obviously "sixties" - the book must have over 200 uses of the word "man" at the end of a phrase or sentence - but I must admit being strangely moved by the end of it, and thought the Richard Manuel character was beautifully drawn.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/417KlX6VBEL._SS500_.jpg

Ha ha!! I never knew he was Nancy's brother.

Does the AJA author write on here? What's it like anyway?

According to the 33 1/3 blog, the Neutral Milk Hotel one is the all-time bestseller. Weird!

The one on Doolittle is terrific -- I learned a lot about a record I thought I already knew a lot about. (e.g. that Ed Stasium was the second choice to produce...) The one on Mu4mu4 is terrible.

I quite enjoyed the Big Pink novella, Billy. Found some of the dialog a bit too obviously "sixties" - the book must have over 200 uses of the word "man" at the end of a phrase or sentence - but I must admit being strangely moved by the end of it, and thought the Richard Manuel character was beautifully drawn.

On its own terms I just about agree with you. It was clear throughout that the author is a musician and a good stylist and equally clear in spots that he didn't live in the sixties and isn't even from the area, but that was fine. Richard Manuel was a great character.

Actually the reason I found it frustrating was pretty specific to my situation. I brought a copy with me up to Woodstock a couple of years ago, and I was hoping to use it as a guide to the whens and wheres of the recording of the album, and the book was very little help with those kinds of specifics.

*a couple of weeks ago*

So is that "Daniel Drew" thing getting fixed?

So I read the Celine Dion book and uh I didn't really like it that much which is too bad because the stuff on the Larry King interview and Celine's mostly on again but sometimes off again appeal for the people of Quebec I found pretty interesting. Sadly, the rest of the book is mostly regurgitated and at this point pretty obvious stuff on the formulation of "taste" with very little insight of note from Wilson himself, a lot of pretty facile biographical stuff on Dion and her global ubiquity and some bits on Dion fans which don't really provide much insight (except proving that unsurprisingly there are some people who like her who are not complete dullards.) There's very little on Let's Talk About Love itself (not that I'm really complaining about this--it's not like I really bought the book to read about the album) which seems to have picked mostly because it a) has the damn Titanic theme on it and b) it allows Wilson to start everything chapter with "Let's Talk About. . ."