Transport in London is shit

Hang on, in what universe is three significant delays in THREE DAYS just "them's the breaks"?

That's a failure rate of 100%. I think that comes pretty clearly under the category of "shit".

Weren't two of them trains though? Not tfl. Trains are shit, well that's whole other story.

Also, failure rate of 100% for very small sample.

For various reasons, I've travelled in Europe a lot a while back - and I really resent denial over problems with London transport.

The first stage to recovery is acknowledging a problem.

The historical lack of investment is obvious and the problems it causes are obvious. Coverage is poor - e.g. large parts of South London aren't on the tube network.

Structural improvements/solutions such as Cross-Rail, and mooted tram schemes, are in an on/off stage for decades.

It shuts down early, it breaks down frequently, and it is expensive (try comparing monthly/yearly ticket costs with other world cities).

Plus have tried travelling at weekend recently?

It'd be such a relief if we could bring ourselves to acknowledge that it's shit.

Coverage is excellent in the middle of town - i.e. all the bits that most visitors think of as London. Cross rail is under development. Paris is cheaper for season tickets, yes, but not single journeys. Yes it would be nice if the tube opened later. I would argue that while there are problems, 'it' does not 'break down' 'frequently'. And yes there have been line closures at weekends, those are planned engineering works precisely to try and fix the problems with reliability.

The fact that for years every station has had a whiteboard at the turnstiles enumerating which lines have problems is kind of a red flag.

What about the fact that I get to where I want to go quickly and hassle free 99% of the time?

The historical lack of investment is obvious and the problems it causes are obvious

This is true. I'm not saying there are no problems. But the chicken little attitude does not chime with my experience at all.

I wonder if there's a complete mismatch in our expectations, or even what we're discussing?

You're talking about "the middle of town - i.e. all the bits that most visitors think of as London" - I'm talking about the wider London experience.

You're talking about cost of single journeys - I'm talking about the cost of using it as a day in, day out commuter.

I think visitors who stick to the centre of town have a very different experience from those who slog in to the centre day, in, day out.

Well I live at Waterloo so slogging in to the centre is not an issue, I'm already there. And I am kinda spoilt for choice with journey options, 4 lines and countless buses. I commuted on the tube for six months last year, and 9 months about uh 9 years ago, but I've never bought even a weekly travelcard. I do think it's crazy to say coverage is poor - in terms of stations it must be in the top five in the world?

yeah loads of stations for like theydon fucking bois

And the ten different stations in Ealing.

just partition london and be done with it

London transport is very idiosyncratic - generally fine, BUT subject to occasional and seemingly arbitrary fuck ups that will sabotage your entire day. Also there are certain seemingly straightforward routes that cannot be relied on at all if you have to be somewhere punctually, such as the number fucking 4.

Hey, Autumn Almanac, are the trams in Melbourne still basically free? Seemed to be when I was there for a bit four years ago...

Nah, they've stepped up patrols. So basically we have to pay for the broken service now.

i seriously cannot believe that anyone is defending the london public transport system omg! surely the best you can possibly say about it is that it exists and occasionally even works w/no delays or jams and gets you to places on time, but every other major city in the world that i've been to has a public transport system which puts london to shame.

that is insane, ldn transport is incredible...anyone complaining about it has never lived in another city

When I went to London it was shocking how much more efficient, effective, and functional (if not more expensive) than anywhere else I'd been (and what more in an enormous city that deals with enormous volumes of people).

As a little experiment, to see if opinions differ depending on where you live, I've made a collaborative Google map. Stick a red pin in if you think tfl is shit, or a green pin if you think it's great. If you are really unable to commit to either extreme I guess you could use a yellow pin.

Email me at tom dotttt ledger attt gmail dotttt com for an invite, once you're in you can invite other people too.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=106594618650848772292.0004636ab35215c6d1d70

Ledge, London is more than Zone 1.

It's a HELL of a lot more than Zone 1, and it's totally arrogant and elitist to judge the entire system on a tiny sliver of an experience that is totally unaffordable to the great majority of people that live in London.

The fact that we've been promised a tube for years, and STILL never got one (where are they sending our promised line? Oh yeah, to Clapham - because they're *so* short of train lines) - the fact that we STILL are not on the Oyster card system after how many years? And the fact that this is true of vast swathes of South London (sorry, we *are* London, even though lots of people would like to pretend otherwise) is indicative of MASSIVE FAIL.

The bus service in London is far better than that of any other city. The Tube has its problems, but is still pretty good IMO.

And problems with the rail service can be blamed on the ludicrous franchising schemes when the Tories broke up British Rail in the arly 90s.

It's true, the buses are pretty great.

In fact, rail in S London would do well to be given over to TFL- the former Silverlink line in N London has improved immeasurably since this happened last year.

And there is going to be a similar orbital rail link in S London, from Surrey Quays to Clapham, run by TFL:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7886008.stm

Whatever the problems with the Olympics, London travel will be significantly improved.

Do the buses in Birmingham still make you pay for your ticket by putting your coins into a dispenser that, in order to be more efficient, doesn't give change? That was always fun.

There's no lateral S London rail link extending into Lewisham, Bexley and beyond. Which has always irritated me a teeny bit. Everything, literally everything, passes through London Bridge/Charing Cross for us lot. Normally this isn't too much of a problem, to be fair.

lol Birmingham

I think the transport is fantastic, though shit if you live south of the river.
I also read an independent review a while ago that put our 'metro' system as the most cost effective/efficient considering its size and availability, and also considering the number of people that use it each day.

It's easy to complain but we actually have a very good underground network, consisting of one of the largest networks of stations, geographical coverage, number of lines and connections, speed, etc etc.

Ledge, London is more than Zone 1.

Noooo shiiiitttt

a tiny sliver of an experience that is totally unaffordable to the great majority of people that live in London.

I'm sorry I'll shut up and get back to stuffing my face with caviar in my five mill riverside penthouse suite.

don't live in south london guys

i can and i will

That south circular rail was supposed to go to Streatham - it's now not. We got sold this massive scheme whereby they are going to knock down our Leisure Centre and build a massive Tescos in its place, in preparation for putting the tube station in the complex - but now we're not getting the tube, and we're still getting the sodding Tesco. :-(

I swear, since the re-conglomeration of the trains, service is getting worse. I didn't think anything could be worse than Thameslink, but First Crapital Connect still manage to somehow be.

And as to what they're doing to "upgrade" the system - basically shutting down trains to South London at evenings and weekends - because why on earth would anyone need to leave South London at the weekend? And oh yeah, let's shut the Victoria line at the same time - and close Oval, which is the one station on the Northern Line where it's actually convenient to get Brixton bound busses? Yeah, someone didn't think that one through.

I admit, this is a lot of venting, but I have just so much built up anger about how TFL treats South London.

what about stockwell?

wtf they can't close the only cricket-specific tube station

they can't

By the sound of things getting in and out of Lewisham is absolutely fine compared to South London further west. I very rarely have problems tbh.

Kate, seriously, just get an Oyster card, you've been having this rant for two or three years now. I've had two PAYG Oysters that they've never charged me a deposit for, that may be their fuckup though. And even if you do have to pay a fiver, the deposit pays for itself in two journeys anyway. And it's fucking useful on buses, which really ARE overpriced for non-Oyster users.

Also this is worth reading.

Where did you buy your Oyster that you didn't have to pay a deposit for?

They don't even sell them at my rail station. :-(

also p.s.:

When you first get your Oyster card, you will need to pay a refundable £3 deposit if you are only adding cash to pay as you go.

xpost i think the deposit is three pounds rather than five?

The thing about transport in london is that ok the tubes are up the spout more often than not, and the rail system seriously needs to get joined up, but the buses are fantastic. On the other hand I am seriously pissed off that fares are set to go up like 6% this year, mostly cos boris johnson wants a budget that looks good?

that is insane, ldn transport is incredible...anyone complaining about it has never lived in another city

― Local Garda, Saturday, 21 February 2009 05:16 (8 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

qft

I mean, in Northampton, buses run between 7am and 6pm. Just as a comparison point.

xp Any newsagent who sells travel cards will sell Oyster cards too.

Even in a city as big as Bristol, there are no such things as night buses, and Manchester's will allow you to go down the Oxford Road, anywhere else you're screwed. It was a big deal when the bus system went down the other day due to snow- the first time this has ever happened apart from Xmas day.

Pretty much every major bus route in london will run every 15 mins throughout every night- amazing, IMO.

I have lived in other cities. I have lived in NYC, whose mass transit system is so much better than London's it's not even funny.

Pretty much every major bus route in london will run every 15 mins throughout every nigh

Just. Not. Fucking. True. The number of times I've waited half an hour to an hour in the freezing cold on London Bridge...

Well, compare the buses to the buses you get in the US, which are twice the size and hold half as many people.

Though I really liked last weekend when only three out of the 12 (?) Tube lines were running in full without any kind of closures.

I suppose timetabling might not match the reality, but even so.

lol if we have to compare to other UK cities to make london seem halfway decent...compare to tokyo or berlin, where the metro lines run to the minute.

the london bus system is good, yes, but in practical terms this is counterbalanced by the congestion on the roads.

I mean, in Northampton, buses run between 7am and 6pm. Just as a comparison point.

Northampton isn't exactly a global capital of 7 or 8 million people, though, is it? The best comparison is with other major Western European capitals, and frankly, I can't think of a single one that is as bad or as expensive as London. It took me an hour to get from Stoke Newington to Waterloo yesterday, hardly a huge distance.

and an hour from stoke newington to waterloo is REALLY GOOD for that route.

when i worked in soho i experimented with walking home to dalston a few times, and it took me 10 fewer minutes than my usual bus journey.

I grew up in London, then moved back here six months ago - I work to work, but take the tube to see friends/ go out etc, mostly on weekends.

I would say I get to where I want to go quickly and hassle free about 40% of the time, and am able to get to where I want to go, at all (without using an unexpected bus and being so late there's no point in going), another 35% of the time. I don't really think that's acceptable, maybe other people would? This is Zone 1 btw.

I live in Stoke Newington, and work in Waterloo, and my commute takes an hour. The problem with Stoke Newington is not the bus service, it's the lack of tube stations, but that's a choice I made when I moved here. When I lived in Maida Vale, I could get from home to work, door to door, in half an hour.

Anyway, I agree that public transport in London is not as good as it should be. Key reason, in my opinion, is the fact that London was without any cewntral government for about 15 years. I know it's a cliche to blame Mrs T, but her government bears responsibility for London's transport problems, I think.