tbrr the notion of tone policing sort of makes me mad
like i recognize and honor the validity of all kinds of emotional responses to heavy information, but when telling someone 'rage is not the best educator of your allies' becomes a category of oppressive behavior i have an impulse to throw up my hands
obviously the only people with an obligation to educate are those who know and can reach the people in need of learning, and when it comes to dumb white people saying dumb white people things, sometimes white people who've learned about why its dumb are the right people to do the teaching, and to expect other people to do that teaching through or with their other justified emotions is a problem
but like damn sections of the internet are on the mad setting permanently, even friends of mine
i dunno
― there are more than 3.5 HOOS per steen (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 21:10 (ten years ago) link
you're almost there
― Mordy , Tuesday, 20 August 2013 21:19 (ten years ago) link
yeah i feel you, there is a lot to be said for finding your center and learning to react in a healthy way, i'm not great at this but i recognize i can get better at it
― ⚓ (elmo argonaut), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 21:21 (ten years ago) link
that said, i think 'tone policing' is useful to describe how assertiveness and advocacy are interpreted by privilege as belligerence and anger
― ⚓ (elmo argonaut), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 21:25 (ten years ago) link
tone policing is the worst, it always seems like a tactic to divert focus away from the actual argument, as if a point made rudely is automatically invalid. and often the people being rude have good reason to be angry!
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 21:26 (ten years ago) link
not that i'm totally familiar with the phenomenon but it seems like a symptom of so much of this discourse being people reading and writing on the internet.
― R'LIAH (goole), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 21:28 (ten years ago) link
where 'tone' is as much a matter of reader inference as writer intent
― R'LIAH (goole), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 21:29 (ten years ago) link
one day in the future we will all communicate via videoconferencing
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 21:36 (ten years ago) link
there's always a point in any internet debate or fight where you just want to put all the participants into a room irl (either because it'll help them sort it out without getting internet-angry or because they'll be out of my sight)
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 21:40 (ten years ago) link
Uzjfkshe I just wrote a long post on my phone and zing ate it
― there are more than 3.5 HOOS per steen (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 22:03 (ten years ago) link
For me it breaks down two ways:
1) That kind of tone policing ONLY is ever used against people in non-privileged groups when it wouldn't be used against a person of the privileged group.
2) Who the fuck are you as a white person or straight person (or man, able person, etc.) to tell me as a black person or queer person (or woman, disabled person, etc.) that I can't be angry or sad about the things I or other people in those groups experience?
― s. cloverlandthug (The Reverend), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 22:03 (ten years ago) link
b-but I'm demisexual
― Coming Out Of Elton John's Mouth (crüt), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 22:06 (ten years ago) link
every time I read that word, I think http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2007/stylewatch/gallery/red_lips/demi_moore.jpg
― OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 22:08 (ten years ago) link
oh man, that tumblr
― mh, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 22:10 (ten years ago) link
^ review of her work on striptease?
― dmacation problem (darraghmac), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 22:13 (ten years ago) link
http://aseasonedplateofmurder.tumblr.com/post/57764676625/idk-how-frank-is-supposed-to-help-me-pay-rent-if
― mh, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 22:13 (ten years ago) link
I have to step away from that tumblr
― OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 22:15 (ten years ago) link
and actually that was the post that made me realize I needed to step away, lol
― OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 22:17 (ten years ago) link
it's ok, the next 200 posts are about Dr. Who
― mh, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 22:19 (ten years ago) link
ok this is an obvious troll because there's a REALLY NSFW picture
― mh, Tuesday, August 20, 2013 6:13 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark
this is the most important piece of writing i have ever read on the internet
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 22:20 (ten years ago) link
lmbo
― s. cloverlandthug (The Reverend), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 22:27 (ten years ago) link
focusing on the most extreme, earnest, insane examples of the subject is ALSO a diversionary tactic imo
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 22:29 (ten years ago) link
conservativeginger likes this
there's no way in crap this isn't a parody blog. seems to have a large following from the kind-of conservatives who make macros about Obama congratulating people for being gay instead of saving Benghazi
― Spectrum, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 22:35 (ten years ago) link
sorry abt Benghazi I was getting gay married
― there are more than 3.5 HOOS per steen (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 22:41 (ten years ago) link
smoking gun's in the description, don't even have to read a post:
I am a socialist who believes that more government regulation is the best for all people.
find me a socialist who puts it like that
― one yankee sympathizer masquerading as a historian (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 22:56 (ten years ago) link
also this
I like how she's all "have morals, go socialist" in her header but capes up for democrats whenever anyone criticizes them from the left.― s. cloverlandthug (The Reverend), Tuesday, August 20, 2013 1:50 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― s. cloverlandthug (The Reverend), Tuesday, August 20, 2013 1:50 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
suggests that it's someone from the libertarianish right who is anti-nsa but thinks "leftist" means "Democrat" (means "socialist"), like the people who thought occupy was obama astroturf
or idk maybe it's a college girl, people are weird
― one yankee sympathizer masquerading as a historian (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 23:09 (ten years ago) link
thirteen-minute gap between those posts clearly belying my "don't even have to read a post"
― one yankee sympathizer masquerading as a historian (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 23:11 (ten years ago) link
Who the fuck are you as a white person or straight person (or man, able person, etc.) to tell me as a black person or queer person (or woman, disabled person, etc.) that I can't be angry or sad about the things I or other people in those groups experience?
i feel you here for sure, and that's what i was getting at when i was like
like i recognize and honor the validity of all kinds of emotional responses to heavy information
i don't think anybody gets to tell people who've been subject to the violences of patriarchy or white supremacy or ableism how to feel about their experience.
separate from that fact, apart from the notion that no one gets to tell (i was gonna say you, then i was gonna say us, then i was gonna say you--fuck me, this shit is complicated for me) how to feel or whether those feelings are justified or useful or reasonable--shouldn't we be willing to ask ourselves if anger is our best response? anger can be cleansing, in lots of times and places its the only thing there is to feel, but in other times and places there might be ways *better for our damn selves* to approach the things that incite rage. catharsis notwithstanding.
but like i said, i don't fuckin know.
― there are more than 3.5 HOOS per steen (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 23:26 (ten years ago) link
like call me a corny motherfucker but i know that as much as anger can empower the angered love can transform the one loving and the one loved, and i just wonder what it would look like if we tried to build our engagements with one another on that instead
― there are more than 3.5 HOOS per steen (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 23:28 (ten years ago) link
i'm not tryin to whitesplain nothin to nobody or anything i'm just trying to feel my way through this shit cause its complicated to me
― there are more than 3.5 HOOS per steen (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 23:29 (ten years ago) link
like my dude saw the zimmerman verdict come down, and the big discourse about racism it jump started, and he was like "ok, what's the best thing anti-racist white people can do right now to educate other white people about racism?" and he decided to start the i am not trayvon martin tumblr, where people started talking about white privilege and how the experience of POC is different in a society based on white supremacy and why a white boy in a hoodie could never say "i am trayvon martin." before long folks on tumblr put him on blast for "putting white people's white guilt front and center AGAIN," and it's just like damn, i don't think my dude deserved a medal or whatever ("do you want a cookie??" came up a lot) but he was operating from a place of love on an anti-racist impulse and the internet outrage machine just shat all over him, and i just don't understand why it has to be that way. i think that criticism--"ay white people, stfu for once, this one is ours" is on point, even! i just don't understand why that has to make my dude the target of hate mail from the permanent internet outrage hurricane.
― there are more than 3.5 HOOS per steen (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 23:36 (ten years ago) link
"apart from the notion that no one gets to tell"
ppl "get to" do what they want tbh. this "u don't get to..." thing is tilting at windmills
― Mordy , Tuesday, 20 August 2013 23:57 (ten years ago) link
p sure u dont get to say that tbh
― dmacation problem (darraghmac), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 23:59 (ten years ago) link
at least when the state says you don't get to do something they can back it up w/ violence, criminal system, etc. what are you going to do if i tone police you? tweet angry things at me?
― Mordy , Wednesday, 21 August 2013 00:00 (ten years ago) link
Want to see more posts tagged #tone policing?
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 21 August 2013 00:05 (ten years ago) link
mordy does what he wants you guys, you can't stop him
― ⚓ (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 00:41 (ten years ago) link
Decide you aren't worth arguing with? xxp
― s. cloverlandthug (The Reverend), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 00:42 (ten years ago) link
mordy just blew my mind
― fuck your movie theater yacht (zachlyon), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 00:44 (ten years ago) link
i... i had never thought about it like that
ppl "get to" do what they want tbh. this "u don't get to..." thing is tilting at windmills― Mordy , Tuesday, August 20, 2013 11:57 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Mordy , Tuesday, August 20, 2013 11:57 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
it's not an argument from threat, legal or physical or rhetorical or otherwise, it's an argument from an ethics that rests on history: an oppressor class's definition of the oppressed class's experience can never be the truest definition of that experience. it's only one that serves the oppressing class's interests, which can't be aligned with the reality of the people being pressured by the weight of a culture aligned against them.
here "you don't get to xyz" means you have no standing to do what you're doing, not "i will break your face with my state violence."
― there are more than 3.5 HOOS per steen (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 00:47 (ten years ago) link
i'm pretty sure it is just whinging signifying nothing
― Mordy , Wednesday, 21 August 2013 00:53 (ten years ago) link
YOU DON'T GET TO TELL ME WHAT I FEEL
There's an assumed shared discourse in a lot of these conversations.
Approaching the discourse like its absurd on its face without making any good faith effort to understand the obvious relevant context is sort of silly.
― there are more than 3.5 HOOS per steen (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 00:53 (ten years ago) link
But have you heard of the Internet, your capital letters will fit in well here
― there are more than 3.5 HOOS per steen (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 00:54 (ten years ago) link
I read once that typing in all caps is like shouting on the internet, and that it's impolite.
― i too went to college (silby), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 01:01 (ten years ago) link
"you don't get to" as an quick but flawed shorthand for calling out logical fallacy, false authority, & other flaws in argument. it's an idiomatic expression and thinking it has anything to do with free will is fucking dim thinking indeed
― ⚓ (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 01:33 (ten years ago) link
We also have a thread called I'M DRUNK if that helps.
― there are more than 3.5 HOOS per steen (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 01:35 (ten years ago) link
― there are more than 3.5 HOOS per steen (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, August 20, 2013 8:47 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
well i think you're ignoring the powers granted to the tone police under subsection six of the patriot act, article twenty two.
― "Dave Barlow" is the name Lou uses on sabermetrics baseball sites (s.clover), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 01:54 (ten years ago) link
The tone police, they live inside of my head. The tone police, they come to me in my bed.
― "Dave Barlow" is the name Lou uses on sabermetrics baseball sites (s.clover), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 01:56 (ten years ago) link