defend the indefensible: glenn fucking greenwald

it is probably 'easier' in some v. important ways to detain a brown person for nine hours than it is to detain a white person, all secret spy info aside

What does that mean, Matt? That Greenwald's husband was less likely to have been detained if he was white? I just don't believe that. They detained the husband because it was Greenwald's husband.

He, not it

Srsly why bring in skin colour?

― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, August 19, 2013 3:07 PM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Hey i didn't bring it up. DJP hasn't been in here before, came in to drop that, and left again.

― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, August 19, 2013 3:10 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Which is fine. But a recipe for derailing the thread tbh

― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, August 19, 2013 3:11 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'm sorry you don't care for it when people point out your terrible posts, but this seems to be incredibly dismissive and pretty much the definition of a presumption of bad faith.

a good chunk of the discourse around this was casting Greenwald's husband's detainment as an attack on Greenwald, turning the detention of a person of color into an intimidation tactic against a white person

i don't mean to speak against this, but, greenwald himself has been pushing discourse in this exact way. greenwald being the 'real target' in the whole mess, miranda just the courier.

it does make you wonder if the UK authorities would have dared detain greenwald himself, had he chosen to travel to see poitras personally via london

which makes you wonder if that was part of the motivation to have miranda act as a trusted but non-famous go-between.

which makes you FURTHER wonder why greenwald would think miranda would NOT be on the authorities' radar, given their capabilities and motivations. which is kinda what nilmar was getting at earlier.

it rubs the secrets on its skin

Ok Caek, you made your point. I just don't think this is about the color of one's skin. Greenwald's husband was detained because he is Greenwald's husband.

tbf over the last decade or so there has been a lot of tearing of clothes and mashing of teeth over the extra judicial detainment of people who are not white eg gitmo, which is not to say that people arent inordinately exercised over this particular incident, some of which is prob wrapped up in race and a lot of which has to do w how people feel journalists should be treated and is driven a lot particularly by how journalists feel journalists should be treated, journalists of course are often wite btw

i guess i'm asking "what did greenwald expect?" not in a sense of snotty, cynically dismissiveness; i really do wonder what gg expected to happen here.

i don't mean to speak against this, but, greenwald himself has been pushing discourse in this exact way. greenwald being the 'real target' in the whole mess, miranda just the courier.

I am fully aware of this; it's one of the things I dislike about Greenwald.

mashing of teeth

lol u need to brush up on your bible stories

spread the resulting paste between two intact teeth

I fully agree with lampoon. I just don't see this particular imcident - which is what we are talking about on this thread - as something motived by race/racism.

Lampoon lol. Lagoon.

I fully agree with lampoon. I just don't see this particular imcident - which is what we are talking about on this thread - as something motived by race/racism.

― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre)

missing the point

it's like a cross between the paddy considine bits of bourne and idk, edward albee or something. what do you think their home life is really like??

dan's point in part is that these discussions have denied Greenwald's non-white husband autonomy as a human being.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_zSBav7yXqqg/TPsZR_n7z6I/AAAAAAAAAKI/c-1hsF4qLLU/S290/Ralph%2BEllison%252C%2Binvisible%2Bman.jpg

alfred i at least am on record in this thread calling miranda a total hottie. seriously confused by your disagreement on this issue tbh

he looks too much like an ex tbh, although the latter didn't use thin flip-flops.

once again, for the record:

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02647/guardian_2647256b.jpg

dan's point in part is that these discussions have denied Greenwald's non-white husband autonomy as a human being.

That Greenwald himself is one of the people doing this is icing on a very frustrating cake.

mashing of teeth

lol u need to brush up on your bible stories

― i am.. a maven (Matt P), Monday, August 19, 2013 3:52 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i do my own translations

anti-cargo shorts discussions are definitely denying miranda his autonomy as a human being

i understand that you disagree, lbi.

but "don't bring in skin colour", as though it's something self-indulgent or narcissistic or trolling, is not the way to express that.

apparently i have made my point to your satisfaction though so.

if i was mama miranda i'd be throwing shit at greenwald's head right now and chasing him around the room, is what i'm trying to say on this thread

in the movie, directed by Sean Penn, Glenn Greenwald (Bradley Cooper) will turn to David Miranda (James Franco) and explain before leaving to meet Snowden (Justin Timberlake) how "life's gonna get fucked up for the both of us" from now on.

dan's point in part is that these discussions have denied Greenwald's non-white husband autonomy as a human being.

― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, August 19, 2013 3:55 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

eh idk not sure we need to get all gender studies on this, from the point of view of the story it makes a lot of sense to look at it like this, guy was acting as greenwalds gopher

xp I will watch the shit out of that movie tho

i...what...the last 50 posts

those flat-tops are more objectionable than cargo shorts imo

by picking on aspects of his look you are denying him agency over how terrible his look is as a whole

i understand that you disagree, lbi.

but "don't bring in skin colour", as though it's something self-indulgent or narcissistic or trolling, is not the way to express that.

apparently i have made my point to your satisfaction though so.

― caek, Monday, August 19, 2013 9:58 PM (17 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I didn't perceive it as self-indulgent or trolling. I just didn't see how it was relevant, but i see what you mean. I still don't think they detained Greenwald's partner "easier" or earlier because he isn't white (and I still don't understand why Dan said Miranda was white in the first place, if that was an error or not).

But I understand where you are coming from now. It's not about my satisfaction . But to be told, by Crut, that I am "shouting down a black person" is a shocker. It implicates a lot of things about me that are completely untrue. And with brute force, no less.

LBI does tend to say some tonedeaf race stuff, i chalk that up to being euro, and i'm certainly sympathetic to looking at events through a race-literate lens, but in fairness DJP's first post was at best a little vague

Do I know you?

"Tonedeaf race stuff"?!

Examples please...

And clusterfuckville right on schedule. Population: us

tempting to believe nakh's theory, including "they would be more likely to detain you because you're brown."

eh idk not sure we need to get all gender studies on this, from the point of view of the story it makes a lot of sense to look at it like this, guy was acting as greenwalds gopher

Having read the Guardian piece and the NY Times piece, I feel that this renders the "family should be off-limits" retort nonsensical. It is a given that this shouldn't have happened, regardless of who was traveling with the documents, but acting extra outraged because it was your husband and not you screams of having your cake and eating it, too. Like, either dude is helping you and is cosigning onto facing and weathering the static, or you are a gross user putting someone who didn't sign up for it in danger and then turning their discomfort and trauma into a ego piece about yourself. The "He's not even a journalist" line especially rankles, because why would you ask him to transport these documents for you if he was unwilling to take on the risk of being detained?

otm

spread the resulting paste between two intact teeth

― OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Monday, August 19, 2013 7:53 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

my god

LBI - Sorry for singling you out & saying you shouted. "Why bring up skin color?" is just a pet peeve of mine; I honestly do think saying such things stifles open discussion & I was honestly appalled that you would ask such a thing because I thought Dan was making an important point. I know that's not what you intended. I was trying to be gentle w/my response but I fucked it up.

Thanks Curtis, I appreciate that. I for one am sorry my reply came across that blunt. I didn't intend it that way. And I do think everything is on limits here, race too, for it is an interesting take on things I - and no one on this thread - had tread on before. I didn't recognize it as such at the time though, thought it was a brash interruption of what we had been speaking about for hours. The issue of race suddenly popping up. But that was my blunt way of responding. I didn't intend to insult anyone or dismiss it.

Group hug.

I do think Greenwald's biggest mistake today was saying he will write more aggressively and release more classified info now. He should have released the anyway.mnow it almost sounds like "ok guys I was going to give youse a break but you've gone too far now!' Which is nagl a motivation for a journalist.

here is what greenwald actually said:

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rm09tf

he will burn london to the ground

to the ground

hes gonna wear one of those masks and post to reddit everyday

greenwald and twitlonger are truly made for each other. btw i love how dude is shocked, shocked that reuters would interpret his answers as just a leetle vengeful??

I don't care if you're black, white, greenwald...

Speaking by phone from the couple's home in the Tijuca forest, Miranda said it felt "awesome" to be back. "It's really good to be here. I felt the weight lift off my shoulders as soon I got back. Brazil feels very secure, very safe,"

this is trolling at its most rarified level

drinking a caipirinha on the porch in his flip-flops, with his dog.