defend the indefensible: glenn fucking greenwald

Jesus Curtis. I "shout down a black person" according to you, and now you just say "never mind"? Gee thanks a lot dude.

I responded to DJP marching in saying "can we just say what this really is, which is now that ostensibly democratic governments are targeting and detaining white dudes for talking shit about them, it's finally unacceptable?"

Is that really "what this really is"? Miranda isn't even white! Dan implies we finally think this code of conduct isn't ok because it happens to a white person (which Miranda isn't btw, but lets stay fact free right?) and I get flack for "shouting down a black person"?

Fuck that.

Caek, why would I leave this thread?

you can't censor t'internet man

I had a long post about how a good chunk of the discourse around this was casting Greenwald's husband's detainment as an attack on Greenwald, turning the detention of a person of color into an intimidation tactic against a white person, and that a good amount of the outrage was coming out of that reading but given that the overarching reaction I got was "everyone knows the US is racist so we don't need to talk about it" I figured I'd honor the parameters people want the conversation to be in and listen to my better judgment this time.

I'd also point out that I had posted a couple of jokes earlier in the thread, both today and two months ago, which would at least signal that I'd been reading the thread if not being an active participant, but you know what fuck it

I agree with Dan that there's overwhelming evidence this sort of thing happens all the time to non-white people, and that most of the time it's hardly noticed in the wider media or culture, and that way more people seem upset about this than would be upset if dude's name was Mohamed and he wasn't dating Glenn Greenwald.

xp!

a good chunk of the discourse around this was casting Greenwald's husband's detainment as an attack on Greenwald, turning the detention of a person of color into an intimidation tactic against a white person

hadn't even occurred to me, goddamn

lbi, you have a tendency to say (at best) tin-eared things then leave threads after being called out. i wish you luck on this latest quest.

also dan don't mean to put words in yr mouth obv, just a reading of what i thought you were saying

kind of jealous that gg has a brazilian boyfriend

Hoos that is pretty much exactly what I was saying.

@Caek, did I say tin-eared things?

I know for sure no one engaged in this thread has ever made light, has always acknowledged, how white people get picked on way less, in every respect. And that that is repulsive. I just don't see how it is that relevant to this particular issue.

And I certainly don't care for being told to I a "shouting down a black person". I forcefully resent that.

I too agree with what Hoos said up here. But to say that that is what this is really about, that this is a racist issue, that I do not agree with.

but the thing is, race is always an issue, when you say 'let's not make this about race,' that is tin-eared

it is probably 'easier' in some v. important ways to detain a brown person for nine hours than it is to detain a white person, all secret spy info aside

What does that mean, Matt? That Greenwald's husband was less likely to have been detained if he was white? I just don't believe that. They detained the husband because it was Greenwald's husband.

He, not it

Srsly why bring in skin colour?

― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, August 19, 2013 3:07 PM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Hey i didn't bring it up. DJP hasn't been in here before, came in to drop that, and left again.

― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, August 19, 2013 3:10 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Which is fine. But a recipe for derailing the thread tbh

― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, August 19, 2013 3:11 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'm sorry you don't care for it when people point out your terrible posts, but this seems to be incredibly dismissive and pretty much the definition of a presumption of bad faith.

a good chunk of the discourse around this was casting Greenwald's husband's detainment as an attack on Greenwald, turning the detention of a person of color into an intimidation tactic against a white person

i don't mean to speak against this, but, greenwald himself has been pushing discourse in this exact way. greenwald being the 'real target' in the whole mess, miranda just the courier.

it does make you wonder if the UK authorities would have dared detain greenwald himself, had he chosen to travel to see poitras personally via london

which makes you wonder if that was part of the motivation to have miranda act as a trusted but non-famous go-between.

which makes you FURTHER wonder why greenwald would think miranda would NOT be on the authorities' radar, given their capabilities and motivations. which is kinda what nilmar was getting at earlier.

it rubs the secrets on its skin

Ok Caek, you made your point. I just don't think this is about the color of one's skin. Greenwald's husband was detained because he is Greenwald's husband.

tbf over the last decade or so there has been a lot of tearing of clothes and mashing of teeth over the extra judicial detainment of people who are not white eg gitmo, which is not to say that people arent inordinately exercised over this particular incident, some of which is prob wrapped up in race and a lot of which has to do w how people feel journalists should be treated and is driven a lot particularly by how journalists feel journalists should be treated, journalists of course are often wite btw

i guess i'm asking "what did greenwald expect?" not in a sense of snotty, cynically dismissiveness; i really do wonder what gg expected to happen here.

i don't mean to speak against this, but, greenwald himself has been pushing discourse in this exact way. greenwald being the 'real target' in the whole mess, miranda just the courier.

I am fully aware of this; it's one of the things I dislike about Greenwald.

mashing of teeth

lol u need to brush up on your bible stories

spread the resulting paste between two intact teeth

I fully agree with lampoon. I just don't see this particular imcident - which is what we are talking about on this thread - as something motived by race/racism.

Lampoon lol. Lagoon.

I fully agree with lampoon. I just don't see this particular imcident - which is what we are talking about on this thread - as something motived by race/racism.

― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre)

missing the point

it's like a cross between the paddy considine bits of bourne and idk, edward albee or something. what do you think their home life is really like??

dan's point in part is that these discussions have denied Greenwald's non-white husband autonomy as a human being.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_zSBav7yXqqg/TPsZR_n7z6I/AAAAAAAAAKI/c-1hsF4qLLU/S290/Ralph%2BEllison%252C%2Binvisible%2Bman.jpg

alfred i at least am on record in this thread calling miranda a total hottie. seriously confused by your disagreement on this issue tbh

he looks too much like an ex tbh, although the latter didn't use thin flip-flops.

once again, for the record:

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02647/guardian_2647256b.jpg

dan's point in part is that these discussions have denied Greenwald's non-white husband autonomy as a human being.

That Greenwald himself is one of the people doing this is icing on a very frustrating cake.

mashing of teeth

lol u need to brush up on your bible stories

― i am.. a maven (Matt P), Monday, August 19, 2013 3:52 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i do my own translations

anti-cargo shorts discussions are definitely denying miranda his autonomy as a human being

i understand that you disagree, lbi.

but "don't bring in skin colour", as though it's something self-indulgent or narcissistic or trolling, is not the way to express that.

apparently i have made my point to your satisfaction though so.

if i was mama miranda i'd be throwing shit at greenwald's head right now and chasing him around the room, is what i'm trying to say on this thread

in the movie, directed by Sean Penn, Glenn Greenwald (Bradley Cooper) will turn to David Miranda (James Franco) and explain before leaving to meet Snowden (Justin Timberlake) how "life's gonna get fucked up for the both of us" from now on.

dan's point in part is that these discussions have denied Greenwald's non-white husband autonomy as a human being.

― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, August 19, 2013 3:55 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

eh idk not sure we need to get all gender studies on this, from the point of view of the story it makes a lot of sense to look at it like this, guy was acting as greenwalds gopher

xp I will watch the shit out of that movie tho

i...what...the last 50 posts

those flat-tops are more objectionable than cargo shorts imo

by picking on aspects of his look you are denying him agency over how terrible his look is as a whole

i understand that you disagree, lbi.

but "don't bring in skin colour", as though it's something self-indulgent or narcissistic or trolling, is not the way to express that.

apparently i have made my point to your satisfaction though so.

― caek, Monday, August 19, 2013 9:58 PM (17 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I didn't perceive it as self-indulgent or trolling. I just didn't see how it was relevant, but i see what you mean. I still don't think they detained Greenwald's partner "easier" or earlier because he isn't white (and I still don't understand why Dan said Miranda was white in the first place, if that was an error or not).

But I understand where you are coming from now. It's not about my satisfaction . But to be told, by Crut, that I am "shouting down a black person" is a shocker. It implicates a lot of things about me that are completely untrue. And with brute force, no less.

LBI does tend to say some tonedeaf race stuff, i chalk that up to being euro, and i'm certainly sympathetic to looking at events through a race-literate lens, but in fairness DJP's first post was at best a little vague

Do I know you?

"Tonedeaf race stuff"?!

Examples please...

And clusterfuckville right on schedule. Population: us

tempting to believe nakh's theory, including "they would be more likely to detain you because you're brown."