defend the indefensible: glenn fucking greenwald

theyve gone too far this time

ctrl-f "buttlips" - found

They came for the white dudes, and I said nothing, because I was not a white dude.
(oh wait...)

yeah nobody gave a fuck when they sent chuck d to nicaragua and tortured him to death for stealing documents from the nsa

.....

...and i said nothing because i was not a white dude with a thumbdrive full of secrets in my cargo shorts

there isn't really any direct precedent to snowden &c

america is a white supremacist nation, everyone knows this, it doesn't really pertain to what is happening here or lend any light to this minor injustice by relating it to an unrelated and much greater injustice

can we just say what this really is, which is now that ostensibly democratic governments are targeting and detaining white dudes for talking shit about them, it's finally unacceptable?

― OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Monday, August 19, 2013 2:53 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

David Miranda isn't white

dun dun DUN

Srsly why bring in skin colour?

Srsly why bring in skin colour?

― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, August 19, 2013 3:07 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

in case this thread didn't have its ticket punched to clusterfuckville

Hey i didn't bring it up. DJP hasn't been in here before, came in to drop that, and left again.

Which is fine. But a recipe for derailing the thread tbh

dropped it from his thumbdrive filled with reverse racism

Playing the race thumbdrive xp darn it

dan is the real racist imho

xposts: lbi i wasn't attacking you, just responding your question

A.Clover I realized that a second too late, thanks and nbd

S. s.clover

no miranda rights for this guy!!

should dump this on whatever assange thread we have, but since i brought it up:

http://twitlonger.com/show/n_1rlvd57

And so, that's quite an interesting phenomenon in the United States. The position of the Libertarian Republican, or a better description Right, coming from a principle of non-violence which is the American Libertarian tradition. That produces interesting results.

So, non-violence: well, don't go and invade a foreign country. Non-violence: don't force people at the barrel of a gun to serve in the U.S. Army. Non-violence: doesn't extort taxes from people to the federal Government with a policeman. Similarly, other aspects of non-violence in relation to abortion that they hold.

I think some of these positions that are held by Rand Paul, while I can see how they come from the same underlying Libertarian principle, I think the world is often more complex and by taking a no-doubt principled, but sometimes simplistic position, you end up undermining the principle.

yo LBI just fyi it's really really not ok to shout down a black person for "bringing up race," especially when discussing an issue (e.g. airport security/screenings) for which race is blatantly a major determining factor. no matter where you live. #whitebtw

...

I can't even tell if you are serious or not...

"Shout down"?!

good grief

whatever. never mind.

over under on lbi leaving this thread?

keep on truckin guys, clusterfuckville just around the bend, they got lotsa posts there

glad to see the PC BRIGADE have shown up to censor our language

Jesus Curtis. I "shout down a black person" according to you, and now you just say "never mind"? Gee thanks a lot dude.

I responded to DJP marching in saying "can we just say what this really is, which is now that ostensibly democratic governments are targeting and detaining white dudes for talking shit about them, it's finally unacceptable?"

Is that really "what this really is"? Miranda isn't even white! Dan implies we finally think this code of conduct isn't ok because it happens to a white person (which Miranda isn't btw, but lets stay fact free right?) and I get flack for "shouting down a black person"?

Fuck that.

Caek, why would I leave this thread?

you can't censor t'internet man

I had a long post about how a good chunk of the discourse around this was casting Greenwald's husband's detainment as an attack on Greenwald, turning the detention of a person of color into an intimidation tactic against a white person, and that a good amount of the outrage was coming out of that reading but given that the overarching reaction I got was "everyone knows the US is racist so we don't need to talk about it" I figured I'd honor the parameters people want the conversation to be in and listen to my better judgment this time.

I'd also point out that I had posted a couple of jokes earlier in the thread, both today and two months ago, which would at least signal that I'd been reading the thread if not being an active participant, but you know what fuck it

I agree with Dan that there's overwhelming evidence this sort of thing happens all the time to non-white people, and that most of the time it's hardly noticed in the wider media or culture, and that way more people seem upset about this than would be upset if dude's name was Mohamed and he wasn't dating Glenn Greenwald.

xp!

a good chunk of the discourse around this was casting Greenwald's husband's detainment as an attack on Greenwald, turning the detention of a person of color into an intimidation tactic against a white person

hadn't even occurred to me, goddamn

lbi, you have a tendency to say (at best) tin-eared things then leave threads after being called out. i wish you luck on this latest quest.

also dan don't mean to put words in yr mouth obv, just a reading of what i thought you were saying

kind of jealous that gg has a brazilian boyfriend

Hoos that is pretty much exactly what I was saying.

@Caek, did I say tin-eared things?

I know for sure no one engaged in this thread has ever made light, has always acknowledged, how white people get picked on way less, in every respect. And that that is repulsive. I just don't see how it is that relevant to this particular issue.

And I certainly don't care for being told to I a "shouting down a black person". I forcefully resent that.

I too agree with what Hoos said up here. But to say that that is what this is really about, that this is a racist issue, that I do not agree with.

but the thing is, race is always an issue, when you say 'let's not make this about race,' that is tin-eared

it is probably 'easier' in some v. important ways to detain a brown person for nine hours than it is to detain a white person, all secret spy info aside

What does that mean, Matt? That Greenwald's husband was less likely to have been detained if he was white? I just don't believe that. They detained the husband because it was Greenwald's husband.

He, not it

Srsly why bring in skin colour?

― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, August 19, 2013 3:07 PM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Hey i didn't bring it up. DJP hasn't been in here before, came in to drop that, and left again.

― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, August 19, 2013 3:10 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Which is fine. But a recipe for derailing the thread tbh

― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, August 19, 2013 3:11 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'm sorry you don't care for it when people point out your terrible posts, but this seems to be incredibly dismissive and pretty much the definition of a presumption of bad faith.

a good chunk of the discourse around this was casting Greenwald's husband's detainment as an attack on Greenwald, turning the detention of a person of color into an intimidation tactic against a white person

i don't mean to speak against this, but, greenwald himself has been pushing discourse in this exact way. greenwald being the 'real target' in the whole mess, miranda just the courier.

it does make you wonder if the UK authorities would have dared detain greenwald himself, had he chosen to travel to see poitras personally via london

which makes you wonder if that was part of the motivation to have miranda act as a trusted but non-famous go-between.

which makes you FURTHER wonder why greenwald would think miranda would NOT be on the authorities' radar, given their capabilities and motivations. which is kinda what nilmar was getting at earlier.

it rubs the secrets on its skin

Ok Caek, you made your point. I just don't think this is about the color of one's skin. Greenwald's husband was detained because he is Greenwald's husband.

tbf over the last decade or so there has been a lot of tearing of clothes and mashing of teeth over the extra judicial detainment of people who are not white eg gitmo, which is not to say that people arent inordinately exercised over this particular incident, some of which is prob wrapped up in race and a lot of which has to do w how people feel journalists should be treated and is driven a lot particularly by how journalists feel journalists should be treated, journalists of course are often wite btw