defend the indefensible: glenn fucking greenwald

to be expected or not, it should not be fucking occurring. that simple.

xp

I'm with you Hoos, but tbf everyone here acknowledged it shouldn't have happened already.

saying this was hardly unexpected does not somehow mean this wasn't unconscionable, lest that weren't obvious from the posts where i said it was a disgrace etc

― No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, August 19, 2013 5:41 PM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

sorry i flew off the handle, i missed this post. my bad.

there's a pretty simple narrative here and it keeps getting clouded up. like the history of this thread itself is ppl basically saying 'greenwald is occasionally ok i guess, but he keeps making outrageous accusations' and then you get leaks that substantiate those outrageous accusations and more and then ppl say 'oh man, i guess its ok greenwald published this stuff, but i wish someone less prone to outrageous accusations did' and then the next thing happens and its amnesia all over again: wait? on what basis is greenwald suspecting the worst? we live in a nation of laws lololol.

and then this triple-layer spy vs. spy shit projected on top -- maybe snowden was a false flag and greenwald false-flagged that and then secretly they're both false flags of the big cover-up from the athletic-doping complex, i mean really?

i mean i guess nutty conspiracy theories are easier to accept than just the government is spying on everyone and detaining whoever it likes and that's the world we live in, full stop.

i just want to make sure i understand--i'm being willfully naive if i think it's a problem that a guy publishing information about government spying by one country has his partner detained at an airport for 9 hours to be questioned about further publications by another country? is that the general idea? whether he should have 'expected' it or not is entirely beside the point--that it occurred at all is outrageous, and to deny that is to make peace with the notion that this is normal. and fuck that.

― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:13

just summarizing my prior posts, though they weren't that ambiguous

- this detention is an affront to justice in letter and spirit, even if you aren't a greenwald fanboy
- greenwald has plenty of useful acolytes including the main leftwing uk newspaper so he probably was not taken completely by surprise at the shitty conduct of uk authorities
- just maybe he was aware that if it happened, a few hours inconvenience for his boyfriend would yield good optics & the data was securely encrypted anyway
- now it has happened and greenwald is getting the most sympathetic press since the first round of snowden stories broke, his boyfriend is free and unharmed

glen greenwald's boyfriend was an inside job

my issue with greenwald's article is the issue i always have with him, which is that the truth is bad enough, he doesn't need to gild the lily by claiming that the UK Border Agency is "sending a message" to journalists. he has no fucking idea what the UK Border Agency was thinking, or who was directing them.

every day people are detained for an hour, two hours, three hours for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON AT ALL, other than like, they once bought a car from a guy who donated to a church that had a congregation member arrested on suspicion of having a telephone call with a member of hezbollah. now here we have a guy who is carrying classified national security documents. like, actually carrying them. it is entirely predictable that, as greenwald's partner, he will be nabbed with these. having re-read the NYTimes Mag article on poitras and greenwald, it really is hard to believe that she and greenwald were this naive. it's REALLY hard. they took endless precautions. so i kinda suspect when the NSA finally cracks the USB sticks it's gonna be rickroll.jpg?

just to make things clear to hoos and underrated aerosmith bootlegs et al, yes i also think it's despicable that he was detained for nine hours and completely loco that his stuff was essentially stolen even though has wasn't charged with anything.

having re-read the NYTimes Mag article on poitras and greenwald, it really is hard to believe that she and greenwald were this naive. it's REALLY hard. they took endless precautions.

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:35 (5 minutes ago)

this is what lends credibility the INSIDE JOB narrative, the holographic missiles or the tnt or whatever

america had several sovereign nations refuse airspace and force a foreign president's aeroplane to land on the mere suspicion snowden was aboard, the chance that the most deferent nation of all would somehow neglect to intercept a snowden accomplice is virtually nil, it's just implausible that greenwald would be so naive not to know this

can we just say what this really is, which is now that ostensibly democratic governments are targeting and detaining white dudes for talking shit about them, it's finally unacceptable?

theyve gone too far this time

ctrl-f "buttlips" - found

They came for the white dudes, and I said nothing, because I was not a white dude.
(oh wait...)

yeah nobody gave a fuck when they sent chuck d to nicaragua and tortured him to death for stealing documents from the nsa

.....

...and i said nothing because i was not a white dude with a thumbdrive full of secrets in my cargo shorts

there isn't really any direct precedent to snowden &c

america is a white supremacist nation, everyone knows this, it doesn't really pertain to what is happening here or lend any light to this minor injustice by relating it to an unrelated and much greater injustice

can we just say what this really is, which is now that ostensibly democratic governments are targeting and detaining white dudes for talking shit about them, it's finally unacceptable?

― OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Monday, August 19, 2013 2:53 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

David Miranda isn't white

dun dun DUN

Srsly why bring in skin colour?

Srsly why bring in skin colour?

― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, August 19, 2013 3:07 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

in case this thread didn't have its ticket punched to clusterfuckville

Hey i didn't bring it up. DJP hasn't been in here before, came in to drop that, and left again.

Which is fine. But a recipe for derailing the thread tbh

dropped it from his thumbdrive filled with reverse racism

Playing the race thumbdrive xp darn it

dan is the real racist imho

xposts: lbi i wasn't attacking you, just responding your question

A.Clover I realized that a second too late, thanks and nbd

S. s.clover

no miranda rights for this guy!!

should dump this on whatever assange thread we have, but since i brought it up:

http://twitlonger.com/show/n_1rlvd57

And so, that's quite an interesting phenomenon in the United States. The position of the Libertarian Republican, or a better description Right, coming from a principle of non-violence which is the American Libertarian tradition. That produces interesting results.

So, non-violence: well, don't go and invade a foreign country. Non-violence: don't force people at the barrel of a gun to serve in the U.S. Army. Non-violence: doesn't extort taxes from people to the federal Government with a policeman. Similarly, other aspects of non-violence in relation to abortion that they hold.

I think some of these positions that are held by Rand Paul, while I can see how they come from the same underlying Libertarian principle, I think the world is often more complex and by taking a no-doubt principled, but sometimes simplistic position, you end up undermining the principle.

yo LBI just fyi it's really really not ok to shout down a black person for "bringing up race," especially when discussing an issue (e.g. airport security/screenings) for which race is blatantly a major determining factor. no matter where you live. #whitebtw

...

I can't even tell if you are serious or not...

"Shout down"?!

good grief

whatever. never mind.

over under on lbi leaving this thread?

keep on truckin guys, clusterfuckville just around the bend, they got lotsa posts there

glad to see the PC BRIGADE have shown up to censor our language

Jesus Curtis. I "shout down a black person" according to you, and now you just say "never mind"? Gee thanks a lot dude.

I responded to DJP marching in saying "can we just say what this really is, which is now that ostensibly democratic governments are targeting and detaining white dudes for talking shit about them, it's finally unacceptable?"

Is that really "what this really is"? Miranda isn't even white! Dan implies we finally think this code of conduct isn't ok because it happens to a white person (which Miranda isn't btw, but lets stay fact free right?) and I get flack for "shouting down a black person"?

Fuck that.

Caek, why would I leave this thread?

you can't censor t'internet man

I had a long post about how a good chunk of the discourse around this was casting Greenwald's husband's detainment as an attack on Greenwald, turning the detention of a person of color into an intimidation tactic against a white person, and that a good amount of the outrage was coming out of that reading but given that the overarching reaction I got was "everyone knows the US is racist so we don't need to talk about it" I figured I'd honor the parameters people want the conversation to be in and listen to my better judgment this time.

I'd also point out that I had posted a couple of jokes earlier in the thread, both today and two months ago, which would at least signal that I'd been reading the thread if not being an active participant, but you know what fuck it

I agree with Dan that there's overwhelming evidence this sort of thing happens all the time to non-white people, and that most of the time it's hardly noticed in the wider media or culture, and that way more people seem upset about this than would be upset if dude's name was Mohamed and he wasn't dating Glenn Greenwald.

xp!

a good chunk of the discourse around this was casting Greenwald's husband's detainment as an attack on Greenwald, turning the detention of a person of color into an intimidation tactic against a white person

hadn't even occurred to me, goddamn

lbi, you have a tendency to say (at best) tin-eared things then leave threads after being called out. i wish you luck on this latest quest.

also dan don't mean to put words in yr mouth obv, just a reading of what i thought you were saying

kind of jealous that gg has a brazilian boyfriend

Hoos that is pretty much exactly what I was saying.

@Caek, did I say tin-eared things?

I know for sure no one engaged in this thread has ever made light, has always acknowledged, how white people get picked on way less, in every respect. And that that is repulsive. I just don't see how it is that relevant to this particular issue.

And I certainly don't care for being told to I a "shouting down a black person". I forcefully resent that.