defend the indefensible: glenn fucking greenwald

I don't get why they're exchanging documents that way when public key cryptography exists. Good luck trying to break a 15360-bit RSA key. Literally you could just send stuff to each other via gmail, using your real name, with body text "here are some more secret documents from Snowden, enjoy!" It is dramatic though.

yeah the implication is the same xxp

i think the differentiation tracer is making is if it was the bad idea of some lower level functionaries or the plotting of higher level functionaries

greenwald has a hyperbolic prose style, everyone knows this, i haven't read his article about this anyway but the reasons for what happened are fairly obvious, if not provably so

which is imho a meaningful differince

higher level functionaries, with 98% certainty

there u go

and like, i dunno. come on. if greenwald likes to imagine that he's in a spy novel he should start acting like it. if you are in possession of info that multiple national governments have classified as confidental and detrimental to national security if disclosed, etc etc then you don't just get a magical shield with "journalist" written on the front of it that means nobody hassles you about it when you're crossing borders with it. maybe in greenwald's ideal world you do, but if anybody knows how far from that ideal the world we live in is, it should be greenwald. now, i think the snowden info is important and needs to be known by the public. but you have to be a little smarter than sending your extremely cute and relatively well-known boyfriend through several countries to act as a courier for information that you know is highly contentious!

which is imho a meaningful differince

― lag∞n, Monday, August 19, 2013 1:02 PM (1 minute ago)

the higherups who authorized it will never admit it though, it's the only inference to draw

If your boyfriend was detained the max limit without arresting him while you're publishing revelatory NSA stuff who ordered it is immaterial. Remember "denialibility"?

It's a meaningful difference, maybe, but the outcome is the same: you can get held for nine hours, your stuff taken away from you, and basic human rights don't count any more.

Whether it was Camerom himself or just two cops goofing about it important, I agree, but in both cases it is clear that as a journalist - or partner of, even - you aren't safe.

Tracer, I question whether David Miranda is cute.

you have to be a little smarter than sending your extremely cute and relatively well-known boyfriend through several countries to act as a courier for information that you know is highly contentious!

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:03 (1 minute ago)

uhm that is the assumption the ukba or their superiors made

there is no suggestion his boyfriend was actually carrying state secrets on his wii or whatever

He's relatively well known for a photo in which he walks a dog in cargo shorts and flip-flops.

There's no way they would have even known who he was without someone at a reasonably high level telling them. The security services would almost certainly have been involved, I think.

It's a meaningful difference, maybe, but the outcome is the same: you can get held for nine hours, your stuff taken away from you, and basic human rights don't count any more.

― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, August 19, 2013 1:06 PM (50 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

when you cross borders you surrender a lot of rights, they can search you take yr stuff etc, you enter into this situation voluntarily via crossing the border, tho in this case he was just transferring at the airport which obvs complicates the situaiton

Pretty tacky dog imo

Yes. And what complicates it even more is that he is GG's partner.

Xp

There's no way they would have even known who he was without someone at a reasonably high level telling them. The security services would almost certainly have been involved, I think.

― Inte Regina Lund eller nån, mitt namn är (ShariVari), Monday, August 19, 2013 1:09 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah he was for sure at least on some watch list, which is pretty dubious

Tracer, it sounds like you're saying this isn't dubious behavior because Greenwald (a) didn't figure this could happen and (b) writes hyperbolic prose.

naw hes saying greenwald is jumping to conclusions re the machinations that led to the dunbiousnes

and like, i dunno. come on. if greenwald likes to imagine that he's in a spy novel he should start acting like it.

I like to think that Miranda was a decoy and this was specifically to write hyperbolic prose about because he knew it would happen. The real docs went some secure digital way, as above.

I mean if it's a spy novel that's like Misdirection 101.

there were no real docs, its all a ruse in order to... blog

can the UKBA do this 9hr detention with olbigation to cooperate thing to british citizens too?

usb sticks? wtf?

yes. i'm also saying that he should choose maybe a more sneaky way of transferring extremely sensitive info than like, his boyfriend and a usb stick. i'm not suggesting that what happened is JUSTIFIED either morally or probably even legally, just that greenwald is maybe being kind of dim about it?

there is no suggestion his boyfriend was actually carrying state secrets on his wii or whatever

nakh did you read goole's post?

Mr. Miranda was in Berlin to deliver documents related to Mr. Greenwald’s investigation into government surveillance to Ms. Poitras, Mr. Greenwald said. Ms. Poitras, in turn, gave Mr. Miranda different documents to pass to Mr. Greenwald. Those documents, which were stored on encrypted thumb drives, were confiscated by airport security, Mr. Greenwald said. All of the documents came from the trove of materials provided to the two journalists by Mr. Snowden.

Mark me down as another one kind of amazed neither Greenwald nor Poitras has ever heard of WeTransfer. "I'll put all these documents on a flash drive, because this is a movie, and it's 2007."

maybe this is just his way of breaking up

miranda is gg's husband ftr

so Miranda would have been stopped even if he was not GG's spouse -- is that what some of you Mordyites are saying?

Maybe GG knows what everyone's thinking the way Obama 'skeptics' know that the True Librul in O's heart of hearts detests the authoritarian policies he vigorously pursues.

anyway, after reading Maass's NYT Mag piece on Poitras I would've thought she and GG were more careful about thius stuff.

ah i did not know. i feel like he's always referred to as "partner" so i extrapolated. wrongly.

no i didn't read that and probably should have but it seems sort of superfluous because all of that could be fully encryped and sent electronically anyway

reading comprehension morbs, as always

Morbius me too! the second graf, when she gets the first dump from snowden, she literally pulls the ethernet cable out of her computer immediately and shuts it down.

"oh plus we have to meet in berlin. why? don't worry about it, it'll be cool."

seems the detention was by the police, not the ukba, which is worse in a sense, because in their defense, the ukba are merely incompetent.

if miranda had classified material from a foreign security agency (nsa) then that would still be ultra vires wrt the terrorism act

i don't give a fuck about glenn greenwald and sure this treatment could hardly have come as a surprise to him

so he may be a hysterical imbecile playing at spy games or he might just have arranged this in the expectation ukba would engage in a counterproductive interception and the optics would help greenwald/snowden

it's not like the only transfer from berlin to south america is via london.......

yeah the detention was by police but i guess it would have been ukba who intercepted him? so substitute the names but it doesn't affect the rest of the argument

jesus ppl on this thread are ruthless.

wtf is wrong with everyone.

Who's ruthless exactly? Because not everyone is saying the same tbh

this treatment could hardly have come as a surprise to him

really

the art of pretend fascism

waiting for it...

What I do hate is ad-homs like 'he should have known' this etc. if only Greenwald was so smart as we all are eh?

can the UKBA do this 9hr detention with olbigation to cooperate thing to british citizens too?

Yes, they can do it to anyone at airports, sea ports and international rail terminals.

Abuse of power and the ignoring of basic human rights here are glaringly staring in everyone's face here. Yet some still can't go beyond 'whaa he didn't see this coming'?

yeah unless u were very lax or retarded u would know uk govt will always go out of the way to help america, greenwald would probably know this

lbi and hoos idk if u are just being dense or

Nakh, even if he should have known better - because I agree that he was naive probably - that still isn't the biggest thing here is it? The main point is that his husband was detained for 9 hours. 'Knowing the uk will always help the us' doesn't take anything away from this being a disgraceful act.