Mike Trout needs his own thread

xp I don't think any WPA stuff is used. I think this is a question you'd have to ask the B-R guy to get an answer.

his fielding runs above average hasn't moved on fangraphs for at least a week

"trout's defensive numbers this year are also lower because he's been playing more LF than he did in 2012 so he's working against stricter positional adjustments"

Yeah this makes no sense to me either. If he was 2 wins better than replacement at CF then in theory he'd be way better than a replacement LF not way worse.

― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Saturday, August 10, 2013 11:52 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

defensively yeah but offensively you'd think corner outfielders are more replaceable than center fielders?

And even WPA was used I wouldn't think that Trout would get a bump from it.

Okay. I would think they'd adjust the baseline periodically

they do, probably during each offseason. it's not like "oh, every other third baseman in mlb went 0-4 last night so now miguel cabrera's war has shot up"

xp yeah I'm talking about just in terms of the defense relative to a replacement LF.

I notice also that, after months of Gomez (mostly) and Kershaw leading the NL, McCutchen is tied this morning--first time, I think.

LF is the easiest OF position so the positional adjustment is more severe i.e. a good LF is gonna have a lower defensive rating than a good CF because a much higher number of players can play LF well than can play CF well. so even if we assume (for the sake of the example) that trout is playing the exact same quality defense in 2013 as he did in 2012 but his playing time is more slanted towards LF than that good defense in LF in 2013 is gonna count for less than all the good defense in CF in 2012.

A cast of characters that includes Raul Ibanez and Chris Carter for example.

I think that difference is counted into the ACTUAL positional adjustment for LF (at least in Fangraphs). Either way according to B-R Trout is basically as bad a fielder this year as Raul Ibanez. I just don't see how that's possible.

LF is the easiest OF position so the positional adjustment is more severe i.e. a good LF is gonna have a lower defensive rating than a good CF because a much higher number of players can play LF well than can play CF well. so even if we assume (for the sake of the example) that trout is playing the exact same quality defense in 2013 as he did in 2012 but his playing time is more slanted towards LF than that good defense in LF in 2013 is gonna count for less than all the good defense in CF in 2012.

― J0rdan S., Saturday, August 10, 2013 12:03 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ok yeah this makes sense

that final "than" should be "then"

Also Trout's still played most of his games at CF.

We're not talking about all CF in 2012 and all LF in 2013.

per fangraphs

2012

LF - 328 innings - 1.5 UZR
CF - 885 innings - 12.0 UZR

2013

LF - 297 innings - 2.5 UZR
CF - 700 innings - -3.1 UZR

so he's playing a bit more in LF and has just been worse in CF

my guess is that he bulked up a bit last offseason and it's hurt his CF defense a bit

i mean if you split the difference between the two seasons he still grades out as a plus defensive CF

J0rdan always blaming the roids.

yeah the defensive stats are always really volatile and you're supposed to have at least 3 years of data for it to mean anything

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9543335/why-mike-trout-more-valuable-miguel-cabrera-mlb

can someone post this?

he's up to 7.8 fWAR, also seemingly from the defensive side, as his fielding runs above average has gone from -0.5 to +2.1

In like a week haha

well literally overnight, but i get the feeling the defensive metrics are updated weekly

Yeah BR dWAR hasn't changed.

when's the last time someone's led his league in both triples and walks? the best i can find is mantle in 1955

Rickey Henderson didn't; never hit more than 7 triples in a season!

yeah he was my first guess too! i was really surprised at his low triples total

Brett Butler led in both categories, not in the same season.

I'm seeing a lotta fast guys who were known for not walking a ton (Reyes, Lance Johnson, Willie Wilson) as triples leaders.

Harmon Killebrew, Frank Thomas, and Prince Fielder all led their leagues in walks. Triples, not so many.

maybe guys who hit a lot of triples are aggressive in a way that works against walking.

i would think that the traits of a strong triples hitter would be

1) fast (duh)
2) plays in a pitcher's park (so strong blasts to the alley and line drives into the corner would have more distance to bounce around before the OF can get it back in)
3) high SLG, but more of a XBH guy rather than a HR hitter
4) aggressive baserunner

i'm surprised that ricky henderson never hit more than 7, although i'm not sure about the characteristics of the old A's coliseum, along with the other parks he played in.

rickey probably stopped at second a lot so he could steal third

^^^actual rickey quote iirc

"rickey probably stopped at second a lot so he could steal third

― k3vin k., Friday, August 16, 2013 5:35 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink"

-rickey henderson

^^^actual rickey quote iirc

A whole page of theories:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=neyer_rob&id=1542089

robs a home run!

left the game in the 6th, sore hammy. please be minor

"when's the last time someone's led his league in both triples and walks?"

It's not Pete Rose. I went and checked as I remembered he drew quite a few walks at points in his career. Dude hit some triples though, not too many players hit 5 three-baggers at age 40.

caught stealing tonight, rare occurrence

Big game today: 3-3, double, triple, walk, run.

really infuriating how mlb.com highlights show any run-scoring play but doesn't have (free) video of mike freaking trout legging out a triple

up to 9.2 fWAR

http://wapc.mlb.com/play/search/?player_id=545361&tagName=Mike%20Trout

ok, the triple's up now

caught stealing AND picked off last night

the bum

From Cliff Corcoran's MVP round-up today: "The 22-year-old Trout, by the way, is younger than five of the six Rookie of the Year candidates listed below. That's not relevant to this race. It's just amazing."

caught stealing AND picked off last night

actually that was all one play -- it's kinda weird how they score it imo

ah ok i did see it was by the catcher this morning - tho last night when i was following the game they only had it scored as a CS, which is why i assumed they were separate

From SweetSpot: Will become the seventh .300/.400/.500 player under the age of 23 ever: Pujols, A-Rod, Kaline, Mantle, Mathews Musial. (I assumed he did it last year, but his OBP was .399.)

pretty good company there