sure but what would you say about someone arguing that because of get up with it, kind of blue is really funk?
xpost
― reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 10 August 2013 15:51 (ten years ago) link
That they were insane, of course. But for years and years jazz critics used to bitch about Miles' electric albums for not swinging, not featuring enough virtuosic soloing (Pete Cosey didn't count, I guess), etc., etc., holding him to the standards of jazz. My argument was that basically once he plugged in, he was no longer a jazz musician. Not because jazz can't be electric, but because his whole methodology changed at the same time. It was a radical, top-to-bottom overhaul. But jazz critics kept trying to evaluate him in terms of jazz (at least in part, I think, because they needed his name to keep the genre something the general public would give an eighth of a shit about). But this is a total thread derail, so I'll stop now.
Re prog, I would agree with Robert that Yes and Genesis in particular made extremely disciplined music. King Crimson had a lot of improv, and it wasn't always brilliant. And yeah, ELP's showoffiness is sometimes what makes them awesome, and just as many times it's what ruins their stuff. (Also, when they try to be funny on purpose - "Benny the Bouncer" - they fucking suck outright. Prog bands generally should never try to be funny.)
― 誤訳侮辱, Saturday, 10 August 2013 16:57 (ten years ago) link
i wish prog bands would've improv-ed more. if there were a billion bootlegs of rush and yes jamming out like the dead did i'd be one happy camper. but then again i guess there's phish who've never appealed to me
― reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 10 August 2013 17:23 (ten years ago) link
When Alex Lifeson saw Cream as a teenager he was so disappointed that their solos didn't match those on the records that he made his goal as a live performer to recreate his solos as faithfully as possible, eschewing improvisation. Evidently, Neil and Geddy agreed with that approach.
― Shart Week (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Saturday, 10 August 2013 17:43 (ten years ago) link
I've heard so much talk about Phish on this forum but I don't think I've heard a single song or seen a single picture or even seen a cd of them in a shop. I'm in the UK, so I assume they are giant in America?
"Benny The Bouncer" is okay, but "Are You Ready Eddy" sounds so throwaway, it was just made for one of the studio guys as a joke put no need for it on the final record.
I need to keep up with Rush, I just checked and I have all the studio albums from Fly By Night to Grace Under Pressure (love them all) but nothing after that.
I think Signals is seriously underrated.
"The Weapon" live...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRw9wlOZ9Lg
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 10 August 2013 17:51 (ten years ago) link
Speaking (upthread) of demos, there's a bunch of interesting pre-release live stuff on youtube, where they're still working out the arrangements and lyrics:
Tom Sawyer http://youtu.be/ZNlN1awfnX8
Subdivisions http://youtu.be/F4P-sSXfTfc
Limelight http://youtu.be/emeyHGexi2k
― Shart Week (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Saturday, 10 August 2013 18:02 (ten years ago) link
i wish prog bands would've improv-ed more. if there were a billion bootlegs of rush and yes jamming out like the dead did i'd be one happy camper
I love a lot of improvised music but I have no real desire to hear long jammed-out versions of "South Side of the Sky" or "Red Barchetta". The compositions are the point in those cases.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Saturday, 10 August 2013 18:23 (ten years ago) link
the upcoming Atlantic-years boxed set
which is only, like, forty bucks at Amazon and I'm not sure I can resist!
this is the year I went from Rush hater to "fuck it, this is fun" dude
― combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Saturday, 10 August 2013 19:23 (ten years ago) link
Yeah, good point. There does seem to be a line drawn between the varying types of prog bands, whether they were capable/willing of stretching out or not. "Working Man" and maybe "By-Tor"-era Rush could and did; after that, not so much. Same deal with post-Ian MacDonald Crimson. I think that the presence or absence of mellotron maybe signified whether or not the band were the jamming sort.
― Sir Lord Baltimora (Myonga Vön Bontee), Saturday, 10 August 2013 21:07 (ten years ago) link
Still, I feel the first album and most of For by Night separates them from prof.... it's like if the first Yes album sounded like Mississippi Queen and Free
― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 12 August 2013 02:18 (ten years ago) link
For By Night definitely not a prof record.
― Spot Lange (Jon Lewis), Monday, 12 August 2013 02:37 (ten years ago) link
Hahaha
― Sir Lord Baltimora (Myonga Vön Bontee), Monday, 12 August 2013 02:39 (ten years ago) link
On my phone
― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 12 August 2013 02:41 (ten years ago) link
But yeah, first-two-albums could be Dust or Budgie or something. Exploring the more progressive boundaries of power-trios, but not quite all the way.
― Sir Lord Baltimora (Myonga Vön Bontee), Monday, 12 August 2013 02:52 (ten years ago) link
But the first Yes album is a more straightforward rock album.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, 12 August 2013 03:28 (ten years ago) link
Listening to it now, the playing is surprisingly loose and imprecise.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, 12 August 2013 03:46 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfsbF2yYpi4&list=PLDE3099EA7349D6DA
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, 12 August 2013 04:08 (ten years ago) link
Yeah but not working man or finding my way
Those aren't even dust or budgie or prog at all
― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 12 August 2013 12:48 (ten years ago) link
Well, yeah, I think we all agree that there is enough to distinguish them from classic European symphonic prog bands.
I have to say, though, I never though of the 1st album as a great one. They were still finding their way imo.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, 12 August 2013 13:22 (ten years ago) link
I dunno, I think "Working Man" would've sounded just fine on the first Budgie album
― Sir Lord Baltimora (Myonga Vön Bontee), Monday, 12 August 2013 16:37 (ten years ago) link
POX euro-symph rush jams
"hemispheres""natural science""la villa strangiato""xanadu""the fountains of lamneth""jacob's ladder""cygnus x-1""2112""the necromancer""the camera eye"
― reggie (qualmsley), Monday, 12 August 2013 18:18 (ten years ago) link
Even most of those have more of a heavy rock/proto-metal element than you find in most symphonic prog + they weren't really coming out of a utopian countercultural perspective. Like, the point is just that they were a later band from a different place who were influenced by symphonic prog but also by heavy rock.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, 12 August 2013 18:29 (ten years ago) link
Anyone else ever find it odd that the two Farewell To Kings epics are the only ones in that entire era to do without individual names for their various movements? Maybe they were just rushed (ouch) to complete that record?
― Sir Lord Baltimora (Myonga Vön Bontee), Monday, 12 August 2013 18:37 (ten years ago) link
Does "Xanadu" have individual movements?
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, 12 August 2013 18:45 (ten years ago) link
prog is not a four letter word
― reggie (qualmsley), Monday, 12 August 2013 18:51 (ten years ago) link
(I'm a huge prog fan btw.)
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, 12 August 2013 18:53 (ten years ago) link
Well "Xanadu" has that long free-form instrumental introduction, same deal w/"Cygnus". But I see that "Cygnus" has been retroactively broken down into "Prologue" and parts 1-3. And retroactively retitled "Book One: The Voyage", like it was "Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope" or something.
― Sir Lord Baltimora (Myonga Vön Bontee), Monday, 12 August 2013 19:02 (ten years ago) link
there was the whole "Fear" trilogy too
― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 13 August 2013 18:08 (ten years ago) link
been listening to 80's Rush again a lot this week and it's still by far my favorite period of the band. Signals and Grace Under Pressure in particular. Signals is a great sounding album; everything is so balanced mix-wise, nothing is overpowering anything else. Probably my favorite one by far.
― akm, Tuesday, 13 August 2013 18:16 (ten years ago) link
Re: Raymond Scott/"Powerhouse"/"La Villa Strangiato":
The segments titled "Monsters!" and "Monsters! (Reprise)" are an adaptation of Raymond Scott's popular composition "Powerhouse".[2] Though Scott's publishers did not attempt to take legal action until the statute of limitations had run out, Rush's management, feeling it was the right thing to do, gave some monetary compensation to Mr. and Mrs. Scott.[3]
― Shart Week (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Saturday, 17 August 2013 20:39 (ten years ago) link
Nicest band ever.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 17 August 2013 21:37 (ten years ago) link
some?
― j., Sunday, 18 August 2013 02:21 (ten years ago) link
http://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/e486b96a11230aab31af69fb75e242be/tumblr_mtq8ag5l2h1qzex9io1_500.jpg
― mookieproof, Monday, 30 September 2013 02:11 (ten years ago) link
Remixed _Vapor Trails_In "Ceiling Unlimited"new guitar solo
― Edward Bax, Wednesday, 16 October 2013 18:16 (ten years ago) link
More haikus! Yay!
― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Wednesday, 16 October 2013 21:45 (ten years ago) link
Live album comingRush with a string section, dudeNovember 19
― Humorist (horse) (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, 16 October 2013 21:59 (ten years ago) link
Can't feel the pyroOn a live Rush recordingBut you can hear it
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 16 October 2013 22:18 (ten years ago) link
No need to line upWhen Peart takes his sweet soloWith cold beer on hand.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 16 October 2013 22:21 (ten years ago) link
Nothing but the hits?Every Rush song is a hitWhen you are a fan.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 16 October 2013 22:22 (ten years ago) link
Every song a hit?Yes, "I Think I'm Going Bald"Is, to me, a hit
― Addison Doug (Matt #2), Wednesday, 16 October 2013 22:24 (ten years ago) link
Hits are not songs sungHits are what Neil's drum kit takesHis sticks take the breaks
― Sir Lord Baltimora (Myonga Vön Bontee), Wednesday, 16 October 2013 22:49 (ten years ago) link
I don't understandRush being trendy right nowBut it's cool with me
― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Wednesday, 16 October 2013 23:00 (ten years ago) link
Rush was always coolIt's better cool than cast outThe world admits
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 17 October 2013 01:50 (ten years ago) link
Huh:
http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/transcripts/19961200request.htm
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 18 October 2013 18:37 (ten years ago) link
"There are elites that form on both sides. There is the elite of the guy who can play all these notes and scales, and then there's the elite of, 'Fuck off, he's a wanker. Why can't you have both [the Sex Pistols'] 'God Save the Queen' and [Rush's] 'Tom Sawyer'? Both songs changed my life."
― reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 18 October 2013 19:24 (ten years ago) link
What's weird about that is that by the time "Tom Sawyer" came out, Reid was already a pretty hardcore jazzbo. I mean, he put out that album with Bill Frisell not long after, I think. Of course, Frisell is another guy whose tastes run the gamut, but I find it hard to believe - though I guess not that hard - that Reid's mind was blown by 'Tom Sawyer" while he was out shredding harmolodically with Ronald Shannon Jackson or whomever. But maybe! It's cool, anyway, that he would say it.
I always heard that Reid lifted a note for note bit of Lifeson for his "Time's Up" solo...
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 18 October 2013 19:41 (ten years ago) link
reid always seems pretty cool even if i don't always dig his music
― lorde willin' (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 18 October 2013 21:30 (ten years ago) link
his sister was doing census work when i was living in crown heights, his home neighborhood. i don't remember how living colour came up while she was interviewing me; once i found out who her brother was, though, i remember nearly falling off my stoop
― reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 18 October 2013 22:09 (ten years ago) link
So I wrote a Rush thing for Stereogum. A 16,000 word Rush thing.
http://www.stereogum.com/1685666/rush-albums-from-worst-to-best/list/
― A. Begrand, Tuesday, 10 June 2014 15:54 (nine years ago) link
:D cannot wait
― a chap could lose his bearings in weather like this (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 10 June 2014 16:17 (nine years ago) link