Sonic Youth: Classic or Dud/S&D?

That said, I think their career arc is pretty interesting -- starting weird and then getting conventional (by their standards, anyway) and then getting weird again, except that the weirdness on the other side is so much better than the early stuff.

I like the Sister-Daydream-Goo-Dirty quartet and then A Thousand Leaves best. Also liked Murray Street more than most I think.

"DY" is incredible, though. the kim gordon tracks especially - "kissability" is just filthy. i think "washing machine" may be undervalued - the first song on side two (can't remember the name) is their best Pop track.

People hating on Murray Street? Are you fucking kidding me?! Murray Street is an OUTSTANDING album that 99% of indie rock bands would have to consider themselves LUCKY to accomplish.

Wow; I don't know, Kilian. I mean I don't know how to respond to your disdain for Daydream nation. LIke, normally when I post around here I sort of try to acquit myself well and like mount intelligent defenses and stuff. But fuck it if you don't get Daydream Nation - one of the most consistently fascinating documents of four human beings picking up two guitars, a bass guitar, and a drum kit; - if you, kilian murphy, can't listen to that record and find meaning in it... well, I dunno. Fuck it, I guess.

But Christ, Sonic Youth! Ah well, whatever.

he's only saying that their long players, if played back-to-back, would start to grate: i think this could be said about most long players by most bands (though not many got to make them).

a couple of Mr. Snrub's "destroys" strike me as so counter-productive that i'm assuming he's playing devil's advocate. but generally, isn't arguing about this song or that song just a bit like arguing about spare change in the case of this band ?

I'd always thought that they were presenting their image as a send-up: "We love our indie roots, and still we're not afraid to let you know it." Still, many people love SY cause they can connect certain songs to specific events that happened in their lives. That's not unusual, however.

oh come on: i think its great that some 40 year olds are still making rock music and still having a group that they started with unlike awful 'solo' projects that rockstars have to cash in on their 'fame' (they do have solo projects but just as another thing, SY is always something they all come back to).

that is true, but not for sy
and Jim O'Rourke, after ten years of frantic activity, and he's a rock star ? so sy are looking after him, ok..
but where does so-called Thurstin' f'r Moore get off calling O'Rourke "our Eno" ?

George if thurston did call O'rouke their ''eno'' i'd say its probably a fair comparison: O'rouke makes solo records, collaborations and produces other people's records.

x-post: I thought it was a joke at first but thiking more abt it i think its a half-joke/half-compliment too.

I'd prefer if he got round to focussing on making GOOD records for a change.

i love daydream nation. hence i said:

""DY" is incredible".

"I have trouble following you there.. You think there is bno need for them to have put out so many good albums??"

i used the word "decent" which is different to saying they've released lots of flat out Good albums. most of the post-daydream nation stuff i've heard seems solid, but not worth getting if you already have a couple of the Seriously Good SY records. Most of what they've done sounds like it has a hell of a lot in common with the album before - without much improvement. "Washing Machine" may be an exception.

tbh, daydream nation is the only one that fits into this category.

but people complained that they "didn't rock", or that "the best sonic youth rockers are covers like 'buublegum' or 'hotwire my heart'". Well covering someone else's song is collaboration of a sort too i suppose.

I remember back to when we waited for EVOL and then Sister to come out. Thinking back now, i believe the harmonic language of their alternative guitar rock was in place on those albums, but people who liked typical alternative "rock" just didn't think they went fast enough, etc. I remember thinking songs like 'Catholic Block' 'Pacific Highway' almost did rock, but that the alternative chords were not quite the right chords, and that therefore they 'did not rock' (and the group seemed to be implicitly acknowledging as much with a title like 'Catholic Block' and the act of 'hotwiring' someone else's song)

And then they proved they could and indeed did 'rock' for most people with Daydream Nation (which was a "told you so" moment for people that had had faith in them up till then) and this thread is testament to the fact that that double album is what brings sonic youth fans together, something it seems all their fans can agree on.

and then they got into big business with David Geffen's label. (imo) Goo seems like great comic crossover pop to me, with just enough heaviness. i thought this band was going to save the world from 'heavy metal' at that point.

Unfortunately, it seems Geffen/ grunge/ 'the free market' demanded that Butch Vig produce Dirty as a kind of alt rock manifest, for a new generation of people who liked 'Cool Thing' (which, with Chuck D there was pretty cool).

(And we had to have a loolapolozza (excuse my spelling, but it didn't come to my city or even Auckland (New Zealand), which felt like betrayal). sonic youth had already previously been booked to come to New Zealand but had opted for a support slot for Neil Young for Goo, a year earlier. We understood the economics of their dilemna however and forgave them for no Goo tour.)

(imo) Dirty was sonic youth aiming too low (at the Nirvana market). Maybe it should have been a single album (it came out as a double vinyl lp), or one album for this crowd, one for that, which you can do with 4 different sides of vinyl. Guns and Roses were doing something very similar with 8 sides of vinyl on the same label at the same time. I don't know how Dirty was intended to go, because i suppose everyone was gambling on vinyl vs. cd at that time. It did have five or six songs that i liked on it, but i bought the cd version of it, and so i got fed up with the rest of it. That was where they lost me.

(and the show i saw them do in Christchurch New Zealand in support of Dirty, it was awful, they played _none_ of the songs off Dayderam Nation, but they did play a whole lot of heavy rockers aimed at the metal in the audience, and sonic youth were very condescening to that audience -- uh, sorry, what do you expect from an audience you only play your heavy rockers too ? -- if you don't want kids stage diving off 20 foot PAs at your gigs, why encourage them with that music ? why not change direction on stage and play some of your subtle material ? did you leave those guitars at home ?)

(and lots of bands have been to the South Island of New Zealand since, but not sonic youth)

Death Valley '69
Tom Violence
Shadow of a Doubt
Expressway to Yr Skull
Schizophrenia
Beauty Lies in the Eye
Teen Age Riot
Silver Rocket
The Sprawl
Total Trash
Candle
Computer Age
Dirty Boots
Sugar Kane
Superstar

(77:47, weighted towards melodic tracks with the popular ones from 'Daydream Nation' as a fulcrum - I'd love it if somebody did a latter day disc as I haven't really kept up).

Kool Thing
100%
Creme Brulee
Bull in the Heather
Sweet Shine
Washing Machine
Saucer Like
The Diamond Sea
Sunday
French Tickler
Small Flowers Crack Concrete
NYC Ghosts & Flowers
The Empty Page
Disconnection Notice
Radical Adults Lick Godhead Style

Mine arrived this morning, just spinning it now. Great start to kick it off with one of my favourite SY songs (no, not yer man from Slash’s speech).

Liked Walls Have Ears so much I made their first decade the subject of this week's BA newsletter.

Really liked this early years visit. I just finished reading Moore's memoir and have been on quite the SY kick lately. 'Sister' just gives and gives - definitely a fave album. For absorbing the NYC no wave and post punk and glam rock and hardcore scenes around them at their inception, they came up with such a unique sound that would serve them throughout their career. Truly an exciting band.

I appreciate seeing I Love Her All The Time getting some kudos in your piece. One of my SY all time favourites. Loving the Walls Have Ears version of it too.

Nice essay!

i will read later when i have time. somehow i ended up spending too much time reading about phish! that is definitely my SY era.