Metal Box -- does anyone hate this as much as me?

I have long said that if Mark David Chapman had gotten the last names wrong and killed John Lydon in 1980, he would now be the most deified dead rock star EVER. Except for maybe Elvis.

Try the Wire's claim that Tortoise's Millions Now Living Will Never Die is Gen X's Metal Box.

EURGH. That's not damning with faint praise, that's abuse that makes all the hatred on this thread for Metal Box seem like warm cuddles.

Bloody fantastic album, of course, and I'd also be interested in knowing if the sound quality on Metal Box differs greatly from Second Edition.

sure. most stuff that gets 'classic' status is.

''Albatross is turgid (people always go on about what a challenging intro to the album it is--yes, putting a tedious moan up front is challenging, I suppose).''

yes, but no one 'sings' like this. It can come off as tedious because he is repeating things over and over again but this is a good groove. repetition in this case is good.

They really should have gone with the original design of using sandpaper on the outside jacket.

..And I loved it from day 1. .. Curious what you think of "Four Enclosed Walls" ...?

The News That Should Have Been, from 1980: EX-PISTOL ROTTEN'S BAND HIT WITH PLAGIARISM CHARGE BY OBSCURE AVANT-GARDE SECT: Bizarre Lawsuit Sure To Result In "Trial Of The Century" Say Legal Experts. "I'll fight this to the bitter end," vowed Mr Debord at a news conference before refusing to answer any more "cuntish questions" and firing a water pistol repeatedly into the crowd. (Settled out of court six months later after Debord is unable to provide any evidence that a 'Situationist International' ever existed...)

It'd have to be. 3 12"s @ 45 RPM beats 2 12"s @ 33 RPM anyday, from a mastering point of view.

Rubbish. I love many many records that have 'classic' status. In fact, when it comes to rock, I am an unreconstructed canonist.

"yes, but no one 'sings' like this. It can come off as tedious because he is repeating things over and over again but this is a good groove. repetition in this case is good."

True, no one else sounds like a loon lowing across the marshland at 6am. This may or may not be a good thing. It's not the repetition of the vocals or the groove that bothers me, it's that the groove is so plodding. It's not funky, it's not disorienting/spaced-out/dubby, it's just there, stumbling wearily but implacably forward, and it bores me.

well I'm anti-canon. this is one of the few recs in the canon that gets the nod from me.

''It's not funky, it's not disorienting/spaced-out/dubby, it's just there, stumbling wearily but implacably forward, and it bores me.''

Lydon's keeps repeating the same words again and again in this bored manner and the music reflects that. its the music's function to have some bored element. Punk bands always talked abt being bored, this had the 'I'm bored' in the music. great!

and as far as its dubbiness goes its not dubbier than dub from that period but then again it isn't meant to be that. its a mashing dub and some kraut stuff too. so its funky but not that funky.

frankly, it's a bit too repetitive and overlong for me (I'm not the kin. Still better than anything they did later. But Death Disco is indeed wonderful, in THEORY. I liked it more when I was in my "I only want to hear music that's WRONG! Finger to the mainstream!" phase. Delta 5's "Mind Your Own Business" is kinda the direction I wish they'd gone more in.

When people say 'dubby' they're usually referring to JW's bass, but there are other dub techniques in there too - like the way the rhythm will stay the same but the high hat or snare is suddenly filtered and uses another set of frequencies. King Tubby does this all the time.

the later releases of the music(second edition) not only have poorer sound quality, they are flawed by losing this concept.

I changed my mind!* Metal Box is actually quite brilliant. For some reason it clicked for me this time. Lydon sounds like Gollum. Levene sounds like he's scratching your eyes out. Wobble is implacable (I like that word today). The electronics are genuinely strange, alienating in that way that electronics were back then--you know, they sound like they're wheezing from some big gray mainframe that takes up half a room. The drums are just like, heavy, man. It's a big granite slab of sound rolling over you.

I think my problem was that I bought the album after reading the usual rhetoric about it, and then I didn't hear what I expected to hear based on that rhetoric. I still don't, really... but I like what I hear instead now.

* Well actually, I still think the suburbia-is-conformist stuff is cliched (suppose it wasn't at the time tho) and just wrong, Albatross is a dirge, and it really doesn't have much to do with dub. Even the bass isn't dubby--it's just fat and high in the mix. I only hear about one moment where he plays anything like a dub bassline (midway through Graveyard I think), most of the time it's more rock. And OK, they phase the drums every now and then. But dub is a process more than anything else, and they don't apply that process anywhere--there's no abrupt mixing in and out of instruments, no space in the music (the opposite--it's claustrophobic), no echoing....they're still playing songs, not deconstructing them. Not that it matters, but "avant-garde dub" is one of those phrases that gets thrown around a lot in relation to this album.

Nope. Beyond that...it's brilliant.

Statements like these drive me up the wall. HE IS NOT A FANTASTIC SINGER. HE CANNOT SING. FACT.
I say that someone could have a terrible voice and still be a good singer.
Its like comparing Bob Dylan to Michael Bolton.
Bob Dylans voice is horrible, but uses (what little he has) in a fun and interesting way. Bolton has a fine set of lungs but is excruciatingly annoying.
Lydon is more toward the Dylan end of the spectrum. Sure, he's shrill and squeaky, but he's a blast to listen to.

Agree/Disagree?

And sorry, but Bob Dylan doesn't use his voice in a fun way.

("WHAT FRIIIEEENDS ARE FO-O-O-O-O-O-R! O-O-O-O-O-O-O-OHHHH!")

Even if I liked the vocals on this record better, I think I'd still find this statement incredible.

Julio: Is Metal Box really part of the 'canon'?

Anthony: I agree that Delta 5 are better than PiL, but that's not much of a criticism because D5 are also better than 99.9999992% of everything in the known universe.

VINDICATION. Stuff him in the Wicker Man and watch him burn.

Great album but I'd love a remastered CD.

With a handful of exceptions, you've pretty much heard the good stuff.

yes. I have seen it a couple of times on classic albums pages in music mags. it gets voted as one of the best alb of that period and it gets connected with the whole 'wasn't 1979, like, the BEST YEAR EVAH FOR MUSIC!'

let the take flood down!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmfzuAd_u2E

s/b takes ffs never mind

A take is raining, across the border.

thought this had been revived for this

As I’ve commented before -j can’t stand some of the trivial puerile shit that you see on Twitter . I mean I co wrote metal box-that’s heavy shit, but whatever , I often ponder -what’s better ? Munchies or Rollo ? The crunchy biscuit base of the former or the classic chewy latter pic.twitter.com/a6r6exdCn5

— Jah Wobble (@realjahwobble) November 20, 2021

ive got a mind to buy the best, before the rest

(maltesers)

pil stinks.