Can a music matter if its fans don't especially want to read about it?

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madness = history-less thought

senna (dwh), Friday, 3 January 2003 21:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

I often see articles about rock/pop absolutely slaughtered by ilxers when they seem no me no worse than the normal (admittedly abysmal) standards of the genre. The Strummer piece at Salon is one of the more recent examples. OK, ripping it apart is shooting fish in a barrel, as a number of posters casually demonstrated, but I can't see that it's that much worse than most of the stuff I see.

The article "Classical Music: Why Bother" Yanc3y links to, on the other hand, really is a disgraceful piece of writing/(not)thinking that Salon should be ashamed to publish.

I'd have been pretty interested in hearing the case for elitism in music/the arts generally if it was properly argued. Instead it's a lazy, complacent, question-begging listing of unproven assertions, arts establishment prejudices presented as fact, and circular argument.

If this is the best rationale a Harvard professor of music can give for listening to modern classical music the answer to his question seems to be "no reason whatever".

ArfArf, Saturday, 4 January 2003 18:26 (twenty-one years ago) link

um, I remember this article was discussed before. the word 'art' is used to often for my liking.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 4 January 2003 22:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

ArfArf - congrats on using the phrase "begging the question" correctly! It's the first time here that I've seen it so.

What does "read" mean? Surely anyone who qualifies as a "fan" (etym. "FANatic") is going to be interested in secondary or peripheral material that relates. If a kind of music only inspires posters on walls and imitation of dance moves I would still say it matters, because I consider these things to be a kind of reading - in the sense that they place you into a publicly-accessible community of enthusiasts that you can sense through repetition of ritual (doing the moonwalk) and meditation on iconography (thumb-tacking a Michael Jackson poster above your bed). I doubt I read a word about Michael Jackson besides the lyrics that were included with the sleeve to Thriller (I remember thinking that the font for the lyrics was exactly the same as that font MTV still uses for the video credits in the lower-left of the screen - and being incredibly gratified by this). Anyway I don't know if this says anything because there were doubtless millions of MJ fans who scarfed up every interview and bio-mag available.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 4 January 2003 22:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

What does "read" mean? Surely anyone who qualifies as a "fan" (etym. "FANatic")

No, it comes from the word FANcier. (Cat fancier, boxing fancier, etc.)

Christine "Green Leafy Dragon" Indigo (cindigo), Saturday, 4 January 2003 23:05 (twenty-one years ago) link

fan (2) - 1889, Amer.Eng., originally of baseball enthusiasts, probably a shortening of fanatic, but may be influenced by the Fancy,, (1811) a collective term for followers of a certain hobby or sport (especially boxing).

The Fancy is my new favorite word!! Surely any member of A Fancy would be knee-deep in slash fic...

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 4 January 2003 23:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

so to answer the question: no, unless you are Fancy

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 4 January 2003 23:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

seven months pass...
why read about it and not, say, watch television about it?

thom west (thom w), Thursday, 28 August 2003 13:21 (twenty years ago) link

sometimes instead of listening to music, i prefer to have drinks about music, or maybe eat appetizers about music.

Emilymv (Emilymv), Thursday, 28 August 2003 13:34 (twenty years ago) link

I'm really interested in the way Mark's second introductory question follows the question posed in the thread title. I read this question: "do writers have to act as if they believe no, even when they don't?" as implying that many writers (at least potentially) believe their audience to consist of fans of the subject music.

I know a lot of you folks write professionally about music; do you do so expecting that your readership consists of fans? (I mean as opposed to an audience who might potentially be exposed to the music through your writing; or an audience happy to engage in intellectual reflection/discussion of the subject, without being committed fans.)

Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Thursday, 28 August 2003 14:53 (twenty years ago) link

For instance, I know several write or have written for the Village Voice, which I read occasionally. I can't specifically recall reading any piece in the Voice which appeared to be aimed at fans.

Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Thursday, 28 August 2003 14:56 (twenty years ago) link

correction: ...several OF YOU write...

Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Thursday, 28 August 2003 14:57 (twenty years ago) link

eleven years pass...

revive!

so the last decade implies an answer: "yes! as long as music critics wanna WRITE about it!"

"poptimism"=writing about kinds of music whose fans don't care for reading about music.

(and, often, writing from the standpoint of "giving a voice" to those fans and their values, which are implicitly or explicitly evoked as a rebuke to the evils of rockism)

Swag Heathen (theStalePrince), Sunday, 31 August 2014 20:02 (nine years ago) link

Moratorium on anyone who started posting on ILM after 2004 using the word "poptimism". Ever.

Shugazi (Branwell with an N), Sunday, 31 August 2014 20:16 (nine years ago) link

hey, I used quotation marks! would you prefer "anti-rockism"?

Swag Heathen (theStalePrince), Sunday, 31 August 2014 20:23 (nine years ago) link

Dancing about music is a bit like sitting down about architecture, singing for people that can't dance.

Mark G, Sunday, 31 August 2014 22:04 (nine years ago) link

what about people who just like pop music without making a big movement out of it

katherine, Sunday, 31 August 2014 22:11 (nine years ago) link

if the audience for writing about music was the same size as the audience for music, there'd be many more music publications and jobs for writers. QED

Daphnis Celesta, Sunday, 31 August 2014 22:20 (nine years ago) link

q: can a music matter

nakh is the wintour of our diss content (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 August 2014 22:32 (nine years ago) link

Anybody who doesn't read about the music that matters to them is a poseur

brimstead, Sunday, 31 August 2014 23:22 (nine years ago) link

Music only matters if it's worth reading about, screw listening, let alone thinking for yourself.

brimstead, Sunday, 31 August 2014 23:23 (nine years ago) link

What if everyone that chips in their twopenneth on the music you like depresses the fuck out of you, so you choose to avoid their discussions?

#ILX

Basically / I Don't Wanna Be / An mp3 / 3-2-0 kb / ps (Craigo Boingo), Saturday, 6 September 2014 22:37 (nine years ago) link


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