― Nicole (Nicole), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:43 (twenty years ago) link
― Neudonym, Monday, 7 July 2003 18:48 (twenty years ago) link
I suspect the substance of the themes and the brilliant bravura superscience will be lost in a movie adaptation, which will surely aim at the HP audience. I think these are genuinely great books on all kinds of levels, far better than Tolkien in pretty much every way. They are probably my favourite children's books ever, even ahead of Alan Garner. Well made, a lot of it will look really fabulous, especially duelling polar bears in armour. I hope they don't cop out on the seriousness, or the religious and scientific content.
― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:50 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:53 (twenty years ago) link
― Neudonym, Monday, 7 July 2003 19:02 (twenty years ago) link
― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 7 July 2003 19:21 (twenty years ago) link
However, I wouldn't compare them to the H.P. tales - I think that _HDM_ is meant for a more mature audience, and the stories are infinitely more complex. While the H.P. story line is becoming increasingly complex and addresses more issues, the stories still make me think of fifth- and sixth-grade student readers, whereas I think of seventh- and eight-grades as being the starting points for _HDM_ (which is the same range for The Lord of the Rings in my mind, though The Hobbit works with younger little ones.
― I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Monday, 7 July 2003 20:46 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 July 2003 20:48 (twenty years ago) link
Why eight?
― I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Monday, 7 July 2003 21:06 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 July 2003 21:16 (twenty years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Monday, 7 July 2003 21:18 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 July 2003 21:19 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 July 2003 21:20 (twenty years ago) link
HDM is very pompous, portentous, but full of excellent tales which do try and push the envelope (ick) for children's fiction. He's really made an effort, and while it all gets a bit up its own arse, it's pretty damn good reading.
― Mark C (Mark C), Monday, 7 July 2003 21:43 (twenty years ago) link
I assume you're able to get in there already, surely.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 July 2003 21:57 (twenty years ago) link
― That Girl (thatgirl), Monday, 7 July 2003 22:27 (twenty years ago) link
― adam (adam), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 05:25 (twenty years ago) link
― That Girl (thatgirl), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 06:19 (twenty years ago) link
― Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 07:23 (twenty years ago) link
― gaz (gaz), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 08:51 (twenty years ago) link
― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 09:20 (twenty years ago) link
Is anyone going to buy/read Lyra's Oxford?
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 09:41 (twenty years ago) link
― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 09:46 (twenty years ago) link
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 09:51 (twenty years ago) link
― Mark C (Mark C), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 11:37 (twenty years ago) link
― caitlin (caitlin), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 14:01 (twenty years ago) link
("for the Dads")
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 14:03 (twenty years ago) link
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 14:04 (twenty years ago) link
― Dada, Tuesday, 8 July 2003 14:05 (twenty years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 14:06 (twenty years ago) link
― That Girl (thatgirl), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 15:15 (twenty years ago) link
― j fail (cenotaph), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 19:22 (twenty years ago) link
― J (Jay), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 19:25 (twenty years ago) link
― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 19:27 (twenty years ago) link
I thought the third was disappointing, but I don't know how it couldn't have been. Pullman was throwing his never ever-wider with every book (staring out in our world at the beginning of Knife was a great shock, and the dust = dark matter stuff was good too). But the third kept having to add more and more concepts, and then characters to explain concepts, to close all the doors it had opened (ha ha). Oh here's xx swooping in to explain what needs to happen next. Felt a little rickedy. Lots of compelling locales/events (land of the dead esp) but the overall shape was a little diffuse.
― g--ff c-nn-n (gcannon), Thursday, 7 August 2003 16:18 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 7 August 2003 16:24 (twenty years ago) link
death of decrepit unhealthy pope-like god: not even a little narrator announcement 'and thus, they killed god' it's not even mentioned later, by anyone, 'uhh, d'you know what you did back there?'
Mary Malone's story of her childhood love and then leaving her faith was terrific, but otherwise I felt some of the NO GOD GEDDIT stuff near the end was a little too telegraphed, a little to SUCK ON THAT, CS LEWIS.
― g--ff c-nn-n (gcannon), Thursday, 7 August 2003 16:30 (twenty years ago) link
― Texas Sam (thatgirl), Thursday, 7 August 2003 16:52 (twenty years ago) link
― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Thursday, 7 August 2003 17:23 (twenty years ago) link
― Texas Sam (thatgirl), Thursday, 7 August 2003 17:26 (twenty years ago) link
Does anyone know this other thread or is it all in my head?
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 6 September 2003 04:59 (twenty years ago) link
Narnia nd Fairy TalesAlan Garner: C or D?Susan Cooper: C or D?Northern LightsHis Dark Materials
possibly not
― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 6 September 2003 09:52 (twenty years ago) link
(withdrawn god = kabbalah!)
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 6 September 2003 20:21 (twenty years ago) link
15 (the twelve was just a rough estimate)
― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 6 September 2003 20:25 (twenty years ago) link
― Texas, Biyatch! (thatgirl), Saturday, 6 September 2003 21:03 (twenty years ago) link
My thoughts on finishing amber spyglass by the way is that it is a perfectly english ending, and therefore crap. Down with catholicism up with anglicanism (same structure without as many rigid sexual hangups) and meanwhile growing up means getting over adventure and becoming a boring scholar.
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 6 September 2003 21:10 (twenty years ago) link
― Aimless, Saturday, 6 September 2003 21:33 (twenty years ago) link
That reminds me of the thread I keep thinking I imagined, where mark s came up with an intriguing new concept of history and time.
― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 7 September 2003 00:41 (twenty years ago) link
http://www.spikemagazine.com/0602amberspyglass.htm
― Freedom Dupont, Wednesday, 5 November 2003 12:01 (twenty years ago) link
Great. Philip Pullman appears to have turned into Terry Pratchett without the sense of humour.
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 12:11 (twenty years ago) link
the wheely creatures look a bit too like if snorky from the banana splits turned up in avatar -- and the rush through the plot-points is beginning to arrive: mary's discovery of the amber lens seemed both too easy and under-explained
its various settings are still great and i feel that dafne keen has grown into the role and the character now that lyra (like keen) is a little older
ruth wilson remains MVP
― mark s, Wednesday, 4 January 2023 10:41 (one year ago) link
iorek byrnison giving mcavoy a richly deserved hard time lol
claws shd have been out tho
― mark s, Wednesday, 4 January 2023 18:47 (one year ago) link
the battle in heaven was p well realised IMO, tho it also makes you realise how dr who-ish the steampunky dimension of this story can get -- like the story will be resolved when who (or whoever) gets to press a red button on the head villain's dash which reads "my evil universe-transforming plan into explodey ruins"
(does the book use the term "mutiverse"? it's not wrong exactly but i was wincing every time azrael said it)
one ep to go
― mark s, Thursday, 5 January 2023 11:21 (one year ago) link
Of what I remember, Asriel & Mrs Coulter's motives get increasingly confusing in the last book, like they're two characters from an old Gossip Girl episode whose motivations change on a dime, just because plot
― Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 5 January 2023 13:48 (one year ago) link
in that case -- as my memory of the book is v spotty (i suspect bcz flaws in book but also a long time since i read it) -- the TV show handles this with rather more clarity even when their motivation is intensely conflicted (towards lyra, towards one another). with her especially -- more thx to ruth wilson than philip pullman maybe? -- we have learned always to read everything she does thru a "things not as they seem" filter. metatron is amusingly rude abt her to her face ("you are a cess-pit of moral filth") but she is NOT AT ALL BOTHERED and her face just says "i know you are but what am i"
― mark s, Thursday, 5 January 2023 14:02 (one year ago) link
Really enjoyed the whole series of this. The Amber Spyglass was prob my least favourite of the books and I did wonder how some things could possibly work on screen, but they pulled it off. Both young leads loads better in the last season. Not a spoiler, but the visuals for the physical battle in heaven and plunging fall were absolutely stunning.
― that mustardless plate (Bill A), Thursday, 5 January 2023 17:00 (one year ago) link