Damn Student Loans

Well, yes, but it's still got me a bit worried, esp. since I know he's just not good with the figures. Thank goodness he'll have a good job waiting for him.

Total student loan debt as a grad student, thus far: $45K.

That'll keep going up even if I get the funding I'm hoping for at the school I want; few assistantships pay a living wage.

This is all justified by my hopes of a bestseller :)

Debt sux.

Current school = $22,000 tuition and board - $15,000 scholarships - $2,000 out of pocket paid by parents = $5,000 in debt per school year.
I've been in that school for two years, have $10k of debt under my belt.

School I want to transfer to = $30,000 tuition and board, don't know how much financial aid I'm going to receive from them.

So I have $20k if I stay at the one school, and the possibility of $70k in debt if I transfer. But I very much prefer the other school to the one I'm at right now. Am I stupid to entertain the possibility of taking on this much student debt, or does it not particularly matter compared to the prospect of staying on at a school I don't like? Input is much appreciated.

Justin S. I don't think it matters very much at all where you go to school undergrad, unless you are going for a very specific reason. But if it's just general liberal arts, I would say suck it up and finish it out with less debt. I just have this fear of ever being in debt and do everything possible to keep from ever owing anyone money and so far its worked.

My ambition in life right now is to be a professor in the liberal arts, so I had better get used to financial strife :/

Yeah, but look at it that way: it's not like most profs came from rich families. The professors I've talked to have, most of them, taken out tons in loans, and it's not like they're making much -- but they get it paid.

Barring that type of spartan existence, the easiest way of making the debt end is to die, since student loans are dischargable on death. Generally, student loans are not dischargable in bankruptcy, although I am aware of one case where they were discharged because the debtor was mentally ill. A few years ago, there was a big problem with people defaulting on their loans -- specifically, doctors and lawyers. I believe this trend has subsided, but I'm not sure about that.

Because student loan debt has become so outrageous in recent years, it's very easy to get loan forebearances now, at least from the William D. Ford program. Plus, as has already been stated, the interest is tax-deductible - my payment is about $380/month, $300 of which is interest. That's primarly due to the graduated repayment plan I'm on, but it's not entirely unusual either.

I'm just planning on paying the off debt forever, and I consider it a cost of doing business. It's not so bad. And someday, I may get lucky and be able to wipe a bunch of it out.

Nobody should feel bad for law school students and their massive loans; they make plenty of money from the get-go, and the top tier of firms will pay off the loans entirely after a few years. (If they're public defenders or something, then yes, please feel sorry for them.)

My personal consolation is that the typical first-novel advance is, at present, way way bigger than my total debt could possibly end up. These advances are ridiculous and sinking the publishing industry, but I hope they keep handing them out for at least three or four more years.

If you can get away with it, lie about your age (no matter what it is). Young Authors are all the rage now :)

...which, in this day and age, is a completely bullshit statement. Obviously my ire is not directed at you, because you're right, that IS their excuse. You can get any fucking aid at all if you are under 25, unless you are in graduate school, because they think your parents should pay for you. My parents have no money whatsoever and I ran away from home--yeah, they're really gonna pony up the $15-20k, especially with ALL THREE OF MY SISTERS being in school too.

There's just no way around it. I had a long chat with the girl at the financial aid office, and basically she told me, yeah, you should be independent even under their own rules (extraordinary situations include run aways, regardless of whether or not I speak to my parents now), but I'd have to involve psychologists and social workers and the police reports from my past to get this done! I'm like, this just isn't worth it, I got a year and then I'll be declared age-independent...

It's just bullshit. As I've said many times previously: surely I am not the only person under 25 in the entirety of the United States who does not live off mommy and daddy. I know quite a lot of people in my age range who entirely support themselves! It's a system that seems hellbent on keeping the less-wealthy classes (ie those whose parents can't afford to pony up educational costs) down and the borgeouise up, and it seems totally counterintuitive to our much vaunted "American Dream" crap.

< /end annoyance>

fletrejet, I did the straight into work thing and am smashing my head badly against a glass ceiling. This could just be my company but I don't think it is. In this economy, they look for excuses not to hire people or to let them go...*sigh*

Preaching to the choir, believe me. As an undergrad, they took my father's income into account; he's a millionaire who, per the divorce agreement, has no financial responsibility for me, who set up a (small, gone the first year of Hampshire) trust fund in lieu of such, and who stopped filing taxes in the 80s, and from whom I haven't seen a dime since he stopped paying my allowance when I was 13. My mother is a civil servant who was making under $20K at the time -- two-thirds of Hampshire's tuition. I got no aid except a $300 loan.

Over a lifetime, it results in $1 million less in income -- Time quotes that every year when they do their "go to these schools" article. Very few people don't end up making up for their loans, and then some.

It's still bullshit anyway, this responsibility/non-responsibility. Say some deadbeat dad is legally required to pay, but doesn't. WHAT is the kid supposed to do to get the money out of the guy? It should just be the parent who lives with you. WHICH IS ALL IRRELEVANT BECAUSE 18 YEAR OLDS SHOULD NOT BE LIVING OFF THEIR PARENTS ANYWAY. I mean you can go to war, vote for president, and buy cigs, per the government, but you are still considered a child to the same government if you need help from them.

Ugh, it's disgusting.

Yeah, for federal aid, it is. For Hampshire, not so much. That's how they hang on to their money: they exclude whoever they can, give tiny amounts to most, and then pile on full scholarships to a small number, so they can talk about those kids during the open houses. That's why I got the $300 loan -- it was federal. The following year, and until I turned 23 or whatever it is, I didn't even get federal because of my father's lack-of-filing-taxes (they required that even though they didn't take his income into account; somehow they just didn't notice, the first year, that they didn't have his info.)

The main reason I kick myself about Hampshire is, shit, I blew my trust fund in a year. Granted, it wasn't very big, it's not like I'd be rich, but it would have been nice to have.

So yeah, it was a ... great school :)

Ah yes, the special breeding of the spoilt fuckwad.

To over-recycle an over-recycled phrase, Hampshire is spoiled on Hampshire students. But it's really so very very true.

(Ally and I cannot talk very long without bringing up either Hampshire or urinals, I think.)

Time assumes you will make more money from your degree - not a guarantee with many degrees. And school costs you money at the very begining (time value of money), when you should be saving and investing it. Of course this assumes that a 18 year old will actually be doing this, which is actually a silly thing to assume.

But the real problem is that the educational system is fundamentally fucked up. What is now "college"-level education should start in high school (and therefore be paid for by the gov). I got my bachelors in three years by taking advanced placement classes in high school for college credit.

I don't think it assumes that, per se, it's just based on statistics: people with college degrees, on average, make more money. On average, if all you have is an undergraduate degree (and so automatically doctors and lawyers are out of this), you make the same amount of money regardless of what that degree is in (of course, that should practically go without saying; if you're really going to pursue high-paying work in the field of your degree, you're probably going to go to graduate school.)

And nabisco -- Hampshire's scholarship money is, if not entirely need-based, need-based enough that I'm not aware of anyone who received merit-based scholarships from them, beyond the few little things like "this money is earmarked for students of American-Asian descent pursuing a career in sociology," and the usual very-specific funds like that which are set up by alumni.

student loan relief decision from SCOTUS due this month:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamminsky/2023/05/17/huge-student-loan-forgiveness-decision-is-only-weeks-away---key-details

really got to stop referring to it as 'forgiveness'

fuck my life

ja

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmMnISN3e3E

from the us politics thread:

https://prospect.org/education/2023-07-05-biden-administration-begins-student-debt-relief-plan-b/