Smashing Pumpkins - ADORE (1998) - their last masterpiece - the poll

hoooooly shit @ shaq'ing pumpkins

Second half still stands up imo

I have a clear memory of my high school alt-rock buddy declaring, after "Eye" and "The End Is The Beginning Is The End," that "they're on two strikes with me." "Ava Adore" was strike three. I personally loved both of those first two, but the third didn't click at all, and I think I didn't really buy the album until 99x happened to put "Daphne Descends" into rotation for a bit and I thought that was kind of cool. Even that's telling though, cause I was a die-hard fan of MCIS and should have been a prime buyer for the new record.

yeah, as someone with a general appreciation for all sorts of '90s alt-rock commercial failures, i respect the passion some people have for this album, but i just can't share it. "Perfect" was a nice single, though. "Daphne Descends" is good too, wish they'd played that on the radio here too.

I recall a lot of people at the time being down on this record because of its lack of Jimmy Chamberlin, but at the same time I honestly don't think his flashy style would have suited a lot of these tracks. I could imagine him on 'Perfect', 'Once Upon A Time' and maybe 'For Martha', but that's about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDwXwTbyuNg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B529RDSjiYw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC2fVhVrGZA

What happened to BC's voice btw? It was always pretty limited but I find it really unpleasant in this period, especially contrasted with the softer music here. Did touring just kill his higher register and dynamic range (as it was)?

I guess it was also just mixed lower on the earlier albums.

"shame" has aged really well.. or maybe i'm just more predisposed to mellow doom rock these days.

I guess it was also just mixed lower on the earlier albums.

― EveningStar (Sund4r), Saturday, July 20, 2013 7:36 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think it was more that he used to sing softer. Listening to tracks on Siamese Dream is sounds like he sings a lot softer and quieter, giving his voice that more 'angelic' sound like on the verses to 'Today', 'Soma' etc. By the time he got to Adore I guess he tried to project more, giving it a more harsher (some may even say whinier) quality. I think his very soft voice would have suited this album.

that's probably a pretty typical trajectory for rock singers. at first they're shy in the vocal booth, but after a few years of screaming in front of crowds, they have no problem projecting in the studio. most people don't have voices as divisive as Corgan, though.

Yeah Corgan's voice is def the wild card factor here

siamse dream, he was working this inflection point where he could gracefully navigate from angsty loud to a unique kind of soft breathiness. melon collie and onward, vocals sound like they were recorded "closer"' or more detailed or something. really bad. his voice was so painterly and fluid circa siamese dream.

His voice is also really really well-paired with the sound of Siamese Dream, the wall of overdubbed churning guitars and this one nasally, nerdy space-boy with a heart cutting through the madness. He totally can pull other things off, mind you, but he definitely sometimes sounds a little adrift without that stuff backing him up. And then Machina is LOUD but by then so are his vocals, as I think Turrican and some dude get at well.

I feel like songs like Daphne Descends and Appels + Oranjes flirt with an almost comedic level of pretension. Both songs start out almost emphasizing how ill-suited Corgan's whine is to atmospheric electro-Gothic pop, and are only redeemed by the production on the former, or by the hooks on the latter.

The singles are not the weak point of this album.
Lack of jimmy is the weak point.

This is more like smashing pumpkin's the wall where the presence of corgan becomes overbearing.

Lack of jimmy is the weak point.

lol that was supposed to be:

Lack of jimmy is the weak point.

wish they'd done an album with Kenny Aronoff on drums, that would've been jammin'

This is more like smashing pumpkin's the wall where the presence of corgan becomes overbearing.

― Moka, Sunday, 21 July 2013 06:44 (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The documentary I posted above is rather telling of the general mood in the Pumpkins at this point, I think. D'Arcy is complaining about the length of time it took to make the record within the first couple of minutes, James doesn't seem to be interested in talking about the record or the band very much, and Corgan looks quite burned out. Watch that Adore documentary followed by any interview with him in the last couple of years (or even interviews circa Siamese Dream) and its like day and night - yes, Corgan will always have his little 'Corgan-isms', but he looks far more sombre, tired and burned out than usual in that Adore documentary. While there has always been a constant imbalance in the workload in the first incarnation of the Pumpkins (as difficult as it is to believe, the "new" Pumpkins of Oceania is FAR more democratic in the studio - you'd think it would be the opposite), I get the feeling that he was truly overworked at this point, and that he took it upon himself to pull this album together, thus burning himself out as a consequence - although one, too, could argue that he himself made it that way. They looked like they were seriously ready to call it a day as a band at this point, and I'm impressed they managed to get Adore and MACHINA/The Machines Of God out before Corgan finally pulled the plug.

"D'Arcy is complaining about the length of time it took to make the record"

did she even ever play anything on any of the albums?

Mellon Collie era studio footage (you can hear Flood in the background):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXBEuXhTza8

whole band played on mellon collie

d'arcy also lobbied for the inclusion of "appels + oranjes" on this record. she's essential imo

xpost:

Sorry, wrong one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U7QGPz4xmA

About 39 minutes in.

Second half still stands up imo

― Drugs A. Money, Saturday, 20 July 2013 18:15 (2 days ago) Permalink

vinyl tracking and the C-side of this album (behold to blank) is easily my favorite run of sequencing of theirs.

i would happily pay 100-200$ to hear the complete unedited studio and rehearsal reel from the MCIS sessions. i'll listen to six hours of billy tuning a guitar and fucking with an effects rack

^^^
THIS

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

And no details on the reissue yet but they'll be along...

Almost done with that re-listen. Going with A&O.

Appels + Oranjes

but really i could have picked any of 'em, this album is so GOOD

i heard it'll be out in the spring, details in january

Oh yeah, forgot about this poll. "Once Upon a Time" was my fave then, and its still my fave now.

i would vote Blank Page now...

Once Upon a Time nearly makes me cry a when I listen to it. I assume it's about Billy Corgan's dead mom. Either way, it truly is heartbreaking.

ha I thought the thread bump would be for this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpS3g3BfZHc&app=desktop

i keep trying too what you guys see in this album and spending 73 unhappy minutes with it. really feel like Corgan's one of those artists who had his run and then everything after this point is just on a lower level. like i dunno if i even like this any more than Oceania or the Zwan record, and definitely not as much as Aeroplane or anything before it. i'll vote for "Perfect" i guess, that was a nice single.

As you are one of the most generally un-goth people I can think of, your conclusion is not surprising.

Sorry Ned, saw them twice on tour for this album, and I'd still say this is a dreadful album. Not as crushingly horrible as what came later, but Corban's talent (and voice) had soured beyond redemption by this point. Clumsy, awkward, half-baked, listless, cheap yet glossy, boring stuff.

I wonder how many votes "none of the above" would have garnered...

Admittedly, I can't take more than a handful of tracks from MCIS at this point. Still like some of the besides.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

As you are one of the most generally un-goth people I can think of, your conclusion is not surprising.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:36 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

haha thanks i guess? i like a good amount of Corgan's '80s "the core, the heart music" favorites, just not so much his twist on those influences.

Haha this album is basically the only Corgan related album I can tolerate, and I actually really like that (guess goth roots and love for all things Cure and DM help)

lmao "the core, the heart music" that will never get old

Prolly would've voted for "Ava Adore." It was one of my favorite songs when it was new, and I think it was a great choice for a first single. IIRC it continued to get played on the radio in my area years after they stopped playing "Perfect" - a song which always sounded unresolved and incomplete to me, and IMO it would have worked better as an album track.

cool to see appels + oranjes in the three way tie. astounded no one voted for the tale of dusty & pistol pete, that song is a total gem, should've voted for it...