xxxp my initial understanding was that you were looking for songs where the whole phrase/hook was the pattern, not just chord progressions that contain it at some point. My mistake.
― it itches like a porky pine sitting on your dick (Phil D.), Saturday, 20 July 2013 03:04 (ten years ago) link
"Carnival of Sorts" on A in the chorus, but I think he's just playing the notes (4-3-2-1).
― timellison, Saturday, 20 July 2013 03:09 (ten years ago) link
It's all good. Maybe it was unclear.
A lot of great examples so far. I should look for art music antecedents. It seems like really straightforward neighbour-note motion but an example isn't jumping to mind immediately, probably because my head has not been in a classical place recently.
xpost
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Saturday, 20 July 2013 03:13 (ten years ago) link
I guess that's the thing: if one just looks for the neighbour-note pattern over the implied harmony (like in "Carnival of Sorts" - possibly my favourite REM song btw), it's probably there all over the place. However, "sus4-triad-sus2-triad" implies that a full chord is stated each time, as it is in most of these songs. And that's probably much rarer in common practice music.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Saturday, 20 July 2013 03:19 (ten years ago) link
I was sure I remembered Frank Zappa saying something about this in 'The Real Frank Zappa Book" and yes, I knew I could rely on some Zappa obsessive somewhere on the net to have quoted it, so I didn't have to go and dig the damn thing from the back of the bookcase...
"Musically, the northern bands had a little more country style. In L.A., it was folk-rock to death. Everything had that fucking D chord down at the bottom of the neck where you wiggle your finger around—like "Needles and Pins."
― Bloody Snail, Saturday, 20 July 2013 21:52 (ten years ago) link
Ha. Although I also remember reading somewhere him saying that the ii-V7-I progression should be outlawed.
― Orpheus in Hull (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 20 July 2013 21:58 (ten years ago) link
That reminds me that some bands did this on "Hey Joe." The Love version, for example.
― timellison, Sunday, 21 July 2013 04:41 (ten years ago) link
I don't think "Stairway to Heaven" does this, actually, although it goes Dsus4-D all the time. "Tangerine" is the one with this figure.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 13:46 (ten years ago) link
'Show Me The Way' by Small Faces?
― I wanna live like C'MOWN! people (Turrican), Sunday, 21 July 2013 14:00 (ten years ago) link
Although you have to wait until about 1:29 to hear it.
― I wanna live like C'MOWN! people (Turrican), Sunday, 21 July 2013 14:02 (ten years ago) link
Interesting: apparently, Jackie deShannon's version of "Needles and Pins" was only a hit in Canada, at least according to Wikipedia.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 14:09 (ten years ago) link
Well-spotted re that Small Faces song!
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 14:10 (ten years ago) link
The intro to Tell Me by the Rolling Stones does this.
― kornrulez6969, Sunday, 21 July 2013 14:26 (ten years ago) link
In B too! Good one.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 14:40 (ten years ago) link
Sund4r this is one of the most common movements in pop music! I think it's featured in every Zep song with an acoustic. The riff of "Friends" changes it up by adding a sus#4. "Kashmir" adds a susb2. I'd need to sit down with the records but iirc it's what Page's hand is always doing.
I have always liked the descending sus4 to sus3 pattern in "River Man". A (C#) - a (C) - gsus4 (C) - g (Bb) - Fsus4 (Bb) - F (A) - A (A). Change a few notes and you've got the final hook in "Closer". Or the breakdown in "Kashmir".
― flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, 21 July 2013 14:59 (ten years ago) link
Yeah, I thought I'd be able to name half a dozen Zep songs that do this right off the bat but "Tangerine" is the only one that came to mind that does exactly this. I'm sure there are probably more if I sit down with the records.
Husker Du's "Ice Cold Ice" doesn't do this but, interestingly, does the same sort of neighbour motion over ^5 (^6-^5-^4-^5) on a power chord in its pre-chorus.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 15:23 (ten years ago) link
"... I could probably find more if I sat..."
"... on ^5 over a power chord ..."
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 15:24 (ten years ago) link
Also, except for REM and the Gin Blossoms, nearly all the examples here are from 1963-1975. The two REM examples are from 1984. What's the most recent song to feature this? Would we have to look to country radio?
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 15:26 (ten years ago) link
I think I heard they were discussing exactly this on the Rolling Country thread, although when I tried to load it my browser broke so I can't be sure.
― Orpheus in Hull (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 21 July 2013 15:28 (ten years ago) link
Oh, duh, Zep's "Thank You"
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 15:51 (ten years ago) link
Indigo Girls--Closer To Fine
― kornrulez6969, Sunday, 21 July 2013 15:54 (ten years ago) link
I sincerely, sincerely doubt it. I bet you could find it in every song by a Mumford a Monsters & Men or a Lumineer but I am not going to check for you.
― flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, 21 July 2013 15:54 (ten years ago) link
I am posting snippier today than I mean to be :p
― flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, 21 July 2013 15:57 (ten years ago) link
The main piano riff in "Someone like you" by Adele
― flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, 21 July 2013 15:58 (ten years ago) link
Which is the same melody as "Paint it, Black"
― flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, 21 July 2013 15:59 (ten years ago) link
Yeah, maybe it's just that none of us listen to the contemporary bands who do this.
(Man, Plant's voice on II.)
xposts
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 15:59 (ten years ago) link
I don't see it in the Adele song? It's in A and the progression in the main piano figure is A-C#/G#-F#m-D, I think, with the highest voice moving from E to F#?
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 16:24 (ten years ago) link
C#m/G#, that should be
unless it's Amaj7/G#
(was still really powerful and full-bodied was what I meant, to digress. I wish he still sang like that when Page's end of things got really great on IV/HotH/PG.)
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 17:32 (ten years ago) link
OK, back on track now
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 17:42 (ten years ago) link
Whoop, you're right about Adele. In my head I was confusing the piano intro with that of Jewel's "Foolish Games"
― flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, 21 July 2013 17:54 (ten years ago) link
Funny, I have a little riff I made up with this a few years ago (in D) and I've been trying to figure out which song I stole it from. But I think it's not so much that I stole as it sounds like a lot of other things. It's for sure one of the easiest things a novice guitarist can do to sound like they know something.
― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Sunday, 21 July 2013 18:01 (ten years ago) link
Oh, that's the first example someone's given of this in a minor key!xpost
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 18:06 (ten years ago) link
Hm, I was honestly just shooting the shit when I started this thread but I'm starting to wonder if there's a paper to be written here. ILX would get any due credit if I ever actually write something, obv.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 18:45 (ten years ago) link
Ha, I'm listening to Wilco and "One Sunday Morning (Song for Jane Smiley's Boyfriend)" does this in F with a ^4-^3-^2-^1 line in the highest voice (^2-^3-^4-^3-^2-^1 if you consider the whole riff).
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 19:21 (ten years ago) link
I don't know if that actually counts as suspended chords though because he's basically just playing that melodic line with the harmony being implied.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 19:30 (ten years ago) link
"wicked little town" from "hedwig and the angry inch"
(which makes two of these that the breeders covered, along with "so sad about us.")
― fact checking cuz, Sunday, 21 July 2013 19:30 (ten years ago) link
Probably too easy to just find examples ^4-^3-^2-^1 over the tonic in the bass, although there's no real functional difference.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 19:40 (ten years ago) link
the other one guitarist/songwriters like a lot is descending from the major triad, to major seventh to dominant seventh chord, e.g. the verse in strawberry fields forever or Something (which also features the rarer minor chord version)
― Dr X O'Skeleton, Sunday, 21 July 2013 19:54 (ten years ago) link
― Dr X O'Skeleton, Sunday, July 21, 2013 7:54 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Fucking hell, it's like you just read my mind... was just thinking this!
― I wanna live like C'MOWN! people (Turrican), Sunday, 21 July 2013 19:58 (ten years ago) link
I call it the 'Can't Take My Eyes Off You' progression because that's where I first remember hearing it.
I don't think "Stairway to Heaven" does this
No, but a sus2-triad-sus4 progression is used in the breakdown before the solo.
― Vast Halo, Sunday, 21 July 2013 20:53 (ten years ago) link
"Here's Where You Belong" by The West Coast Pop Art Experimental Band http://youtu.be/-AXjkHuYxXA
― ( X '____' )/ (zappi), Sunday, 21 July 2013 21:13 (ten years ago) link
Hmmmmm. I dunno, Sund4r, this is too common a musical device to really derive any interesting conclusions, imo.
― flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, 21 July 2013 21:29 (ten years ago) link
Tend to agree with with that. Sorry, Sund4r.
― Orpheus in Hull (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 21 July 2013 21:31 (ten years ago) link
You're probably right. I like to feel like I'm not just wasting time though.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 22:17 (ten years ago) link
Talking about wasting time, I once figured out how to play the So Sad About Us progression in G so I could put in the truck driver key change up to A
― Dr X O'Skeleton, Monday, 22 July 2013 10:10 (ten years ago) link
Me I'm interested in songs that have changeable 4ths. #4 on the verses, then hit a solid IV-chord on the choruses. Most on-the-nose example is Grizzly Bear "Two Weeks". Or chorus of "This guy's in love with you", where the introduction of the #4 (as a secondary dominant) feels like the sun coming out. Or XTC "Travels in Nihilon", where it sounds like the end of the world.
― flamboyant goon tie included, Monday, 22 July 2013 11:07 (ten years ago) link
it gives the song title an open feel while also being a triad of marks. well done.
― accordion folder full of Zoobooks (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 24 December 2021 02:05 (two years ago) link
Thanks. Seems to me like there is some kind of gravitational pull between the " and the T as well.
― Circle Sky Pilot (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 24 December 2021 03:28 (two years ago) link
Three of these came to mind late one night:
Rolling Stones - "Mother's Little Helper" (last four notes of main riff, in E minor)Rolling Stones - "Paint It, Black" (last four notes of main riff, over B major chord)Barry Manilow - "Can't Smile Without You" (vocal melody of 2nd line of verse, over relative minor chord; there's also a descending chromatic harmony that may complicate things)
― Halfway there but for you, Sunday, 26 December 2021 22:09 (two years ago) link
Pretenders - I’ll Stand by YouPearl Jam - Immortality
― thewufs, Sunday, 26 December 2021 23:31 (two years ago) link
People, we have neglected a classic of this genre. May I present:
"Little Girl" by the Syndicate of Sound!
― timellison, Saturday, 27 January 2024 19:23 (two months ago) link
Brian Jonestown massacre - monster
― brimstead, Sunday, 28 January 2024 06:51 (two months ago) link
man I don't trust any guitarist who does this kind of thing - like if you take a chord and move the major third up a half step that's sus for sure, but if you move it down a whole step that's sus too!
― Vaguely Threatening CAPTCHAs, Sunday, 28 January 2024 18:15 (two months ago) link
Not sure if it’s already been mentioned but Sugar - If I Can’t Change Your Mind
― Agnes, Agatha, Germaine and Jack (Willl), Sunday, 28 January 2024 18:35 (two months ago) link
There have to be multiple REM examples, right? (Tim?) ― EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, July 19, 2013 3:07 PM (16 minutes ago)
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, July 19, 2013 3:07 PM (16 minutes ago)
"Camera" does D-Dsus4-D5-Dsus4-D-Dsus2 in the chorus ("Alone in a crowd...")
― citation needed (Steve Shasta), Tuesday, 30 January 2024 05:38 (two months ago) link
<3
― timellison, Wednesday, 31 January 2024 00:33 (two months ago) link