i think every time you read one of the items in whitman's endless lists, he's doing the small - it's part of his view of the big that this be so
this comes out particularly well in 'specimen days' because the memorandum/journal format focuses his style of rendering the small so that you can see how modest a detail merits observation and recording for him
this is probably the flip side of the magnitude of what dickinson finds in her 'small'
― j., Sunday, 14 July 2013 04:03 (ten years ago) link
feels like it's more about Whitman's attempt at absolute clarity, with Dickinson's propensity for obliquity. Both of them were as enormous as universes, but Dickinson had the amazing ability to summarize the universe in wry aphorisms, whereas with Whitman, it was almost like poetry wasn't worth the effort if he couldn't be a supernova...*
― the next night we ate Wale (Drugs A. Money), Sunday, 14 July 2013 08:19 (ten years ago) link
*I'm full of shit, I haven't really read much of either. It's likely that many of you may feel slightly insulted that I even felt the need to point this out...
― the next night we ate Wale (Drugs A. Money), Sunday, 14 July 2013 08:20 (ten years ago) link
No, otm I think
― cardamon, Sunday, 14 July 2013 13:02 (ten years ago) link
Quite telling that Whitman said the only English poet he thought was big enough to fit America was 'Milton, perhaps'
Meanwhile Dickinson read lots of the Metaphysical poets, George Herbert etc IIRC
― cardamon, Sunday, 14 July 2013 13:05 (ten years ago) link
I'm "wife" -- I've finished that --That other state --I'm Czar -- I'm "Woman" now --It's safer so --
How odd the Girl's life looksBehind this soft Eclipse --I think that Earth feels soTo folks in Heaven -- now --
This being comfort -- thenThat other kind -- was pain --But why compare?I'm "Wife"! Stop there!
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 14 July 2013 13:05 (ten years ago) link
i think i am going to buy the collected emily dickinson today. my volume of emily dickinson poems is old and full of semi-colons instead of dashes
― Treeship, Sunday, 14 July 2013 14:36 (ten years ago) link
affectionate, haughty, electrical,
― j., Saturday, 27 July 2013 00:56 (ten years ago) link
both r kinda repetitive/coulda used an editor
I think I like Whitman more because he feels closer to contemporary language + was formative in my learning to read and appreciate longer poems
― Excelsior twilight. Harpsichord wind through the trees. (bernard snowy), Saturday, 27 July 2013 15:04 (ten years ago) link
Dickinson got editors...who replaced the dashes with commas and semicolons.
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 27 July 2013 15:07 (ten years ago) link
t Alfred that was a joke sry
― Excelsior twilight. Harpsichord wind through the trees. (bernard snowy), Saturday, 27 July 2013 15:08 (ten years ago) link
it's funny, I like dashes a lot but I really can't get worked up about that particular bit of literary infamy—the sheer frequency of punctuation Dickinson (imo) forces you to relearn the "meaning" of those particular scribbles as you read her.
(... altho I will grant that the dashes make a more striking first impression.)
― Excelsior twilight. Harpsichord wind through the trees. (bernard snowy), Saturday, 27 July 2013 15:14 (ten years ago) link
*shd be "punctuation IN Dickinson" or "punctuation that Dickinson uses" or sthg
I think the dashes make a big difference, personally
― fervently nice (Treeship), Saturday, 27 July 2013 16:04 (ten years ago) link
No fucking shit
― waterface, Sunday, 28 July 2013 00:53 (ten years ago) link
I've never taken to Dickinson, honestly. I'm not sure I voted here, but had I it would have been for Walt. My high school copy of Leaves was one of the 3 books I brought with me from Texas.
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Sunday, 28 July 2013 01:15 (ten years ago) link
a lot of great writers could have 'used an editor' but i can't really understand how anyone could say that of dickinson -- her stuff is so succinct and compressed.
didn't vote in this, i don't think, but if i did it was probably for walt, just for writing like 10 different poems about lincoln's death.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Sunday, 28 July 2013 01:22 (ten years ago) link
and the most popular is the worst
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 28 July 2013 01:25 (ten years ago) link
Also as far as the poll goes, what's the point in picking one of these people they both do different things? Why choose
― waterface, Sunday, 28 July 2013 01:33 (ten years ago) link
Who do you prefer waterface?
― fervently nice (Treeship), Sunday, 28 July 2013 02:35 (ten years ago) link
man waterface we're not trying to settle a qn of objective value here, peace out
― i better not get any (thomp), Sunday, 28 July 2013 09:50 (ten years ago) link
i think waterface is right that maybe we shouldn't insist that one is terrible and that there can only be one good poet in the world.
― fervently nice (Treeship), Sunday, 28 July 2013 16:04 (ten years ago) link
re: "could use an editor"—I was thinking (apart from the whole punctuation question) more of the monolithic inaccessibility of Dickinson's oeuvre—been reading Helen Vendler's recent selection of poems+commentaries, which helps somewhat...
― Excelsior twilight. Harpsichord wind through the trees. (bernard snowy), Sunday, 28 July 2013 16:21 (ten years ago) link
... but maybe I would be better served by a volume of selected poems+letters? idk
― Excelsior twilight. Harpsichord wind through the trees. (bernard snowy), Sunday, 28 July 2013 16:22 (ten years ago) link
i think the fact that some of her poems are much more cryptic than others is part of the deal with her. it helps sustain the impression that her work was a private thing that she did for herself... that we are overhearing intimate yet impossibly eloquent thoughts
― fervently nice (Treeship), Sunday, 28 July 2013 16:34 (ten years ago) link
guys stop ruining this thread.
― horseshoe, Sunday, 28 July 2013 19:48 (ten years ago) link
ILE selects its own society - Then shuts the door -
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 28 July 2013 20:01 (ten years ago) link
heh
― fervently nice (Treeship), Monday, 29 July 2013 05:23 (ten years ago) link
What horseshoe said
― waterface, Monday, 29 July 2013 11:19 (ten years ago) link
bd., how is the vendler? i have seen it on a friends desk and thought 'that seems like an excellent book to have' but also thought 'that seems like a book i would open twice'
― i better not get any (thomp), Tuesday, 30 July 2013 22:19 (ten years ago) link
I bought it and returned it a few days later, only because my library carried it (I own her thin book on Stevens' short poems though lol go figure).
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 30 July 2013 22:27 (ten years ago) link
No problems with Dickinson.
re: Whitman. Should he have just left it at the first ed. of Leaves of Grass? Don't know enough about Whitman but is there ever a debate of a fall in quality from one ed. to the nxt?
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 19 March 2014 14:14 (ten years ago) link
taught Whitman recently; teaching Dickinson now. my kids are struggling with Dickinson. the other day a kid was like, "she's simple but she's not. it's confusing." that kid otm.
― horseshoe, Wednesday, 19 March 2014 14:56 (ten years ago) link
once i went to a 24-hr marathon reading of emily dickinson held at a catholic school, it was kind of like this
― j., Sunday, August 26, 2012 12:43 AM (1 year ago)
srsly, this helped me a bunch. you just get a real good reader who knows D to plow through a bunch in a row so they can ~hear~ it
― j., Wednesday, 19 March 2014 16:39 (ten years ago) link
"she's simple but she's not. it's confusing."
= great writing in one sentencce.
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 19 March 2014 17:03 (ten years ago) link
is there ever a debate of a fall in quality from one ed. to the nxt?― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, March 19, 2014 2:14 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, March 19, 2014 2:14 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Many American citizens are literally paralyzed by (bernard snowy), Wednesday, 19 March 2014 20:35 (ten years ago) link
Thanks - been reading some Whitman too and you know we should've done a Whitman vs Pessoa thread.
― xyzzzz__, Sunday, 23 March 2014 11:10 (ten years ago) link
Actually I think Bloom linked Whitman and Pessoa together in his book Genius (along w Lorca, Hart Crane, Cernuda)
(What wd you recommend for someone getting into Pessoa?)
― lolipsism (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 26 March 2014 19:26 (ten years ago) link
There's only one, right?
― waterbabies (waterface), Wednesday, 26 March 2014 19:27 (ten years ago) link
the other day a kid was like, "she's simple but she's not. it's confusing."
A+
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 26 March 2014 21:23 (ten years ago) link
For the poetry I turn to this blog sometimes.
There is a Penguin paperbk but I don't like the flow of it.
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 27 March 2014 15:02 (ten years ago) link
Way cool. ty xyz
― lolipsism (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 28 March 2014 18:38 (ten years ago) link
Some more Pessoa poems here, they are wonderful and made my day yesterday:
http://www.asymptotejournal.com/article.php?cat=Poetry&id=32&curr_index=6&curPage=archive
― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 10 January 2015 10:57 (nine years ago) link
gonna write in
eidolons
at the end of every whitman stanza, feelin just jazzed abt eidolons
― j., Saturday, 14 March 2015 07:02 (nine years ago) link
a good day to revisit this one:
http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/174748
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 15 April 2015 01:24 (nine years ago) link
had never read this one before:
http://www.whitmanarchive.org/published/LG/1891/poems/195
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 15 April 2015 01:38 (nine years ago) link
"When Lilacs..." never failed to move my student, especially when I made them read a stanza allowed, row by row. The cumulative effect, with everyone's rhythms -- halting, assured, bad English, excellent English -- made it seem representatively American.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 April 2015 01:39 (nine years ago) link
*aloud
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 April 2015 01:40 (nine years ago) link
eidolons!!
― j., Wednesday, 15 April 2015 04:31 (nine years ago) link
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jan/05/whitman-illuminated-song-of-myself-allen-crawford-review
― j., Sunday, 3 May 2015 16:39 (eight years ago) link