stephen king c/d?

I recently re-read The Stand, and realized I really dislike the updating of the book's timeframe. It tends to make a lot of the characters speak REALLY anachronistically and sound like senior-citizen hippies instead of young or middle-aged people. Like George Carlin still doing the Hippy Dippy Weatherman at age 75 or something. (The most record-scratchiest moments for me are changing all the Nixon references to George H.W. Bush. They just don't make sense.)

All of this books characters and concerns are clearly products of the late 1970s and should have stayed that way.

I agree. Reading this for the first time ever, it's totally weird. Dates and references, even changed, just don't add up. And (sorry) when the old mom drops the n-word and then a few graphs down expresses a distaste for rap music (instead of the original disco) it just amplifies the casual racism.

His flaw with this novels

I think the problem with his novels can be summed up thus: "The Stand" was originally published minus 400 pages/150,000 words, and no one noticed. Or, for that matter, thought it was too short. Was there a single review of this bestseller in its prime, say the first 15 years or so of its popular existence, that said "hmm, it's like it's missing 400 pages ..." ?

I really like the longer version. It works for the precise reasons it shouldn't work at all. It's singular in part because of the flaws, not in spite of them. Like Tusk! I'm not even a King fanboy, I just really loved The Stand.

Yeah, the book's not bad yet.

And "Tusk" has no flaws, you hooligan.

Folks, I have bad news about Doctor Sleep. I can't really say much more than that for a while. But yeah.

I had no idea so much of The Stand was updated. That's such a stupid idea.

after reading King's recent EW interview and being reminded how much he hates the Kubrick version of The Shining, I'm not expecting much from Doctor Sleep

"The Kid" was a very minor character in the original "Stand" who pretty much could have stayed on the editing floor imo. His increased presence in the long version didn't really add anything for me.

Can't believe a discussion of racism in Stephen king keeps centering on the cartoon redneck characters rather than the constantly cringeworthy stereotypical black characters. I mean I can think of three books offhand that *literally* have "magical negroes"! And I'd be... curious to hear the audiobooks of some of his novels, especially if the reader is a white person.

Can't believe a discussion of racism in Stephen king keeps centering on the cartoon redneck characters rather than the constantly cringeworthy stereotypical black characters. I mean I can think of three books offhand that *literally* have "magical negroes"!

ya rly

Stephen King, in his Creepshow 2 cameo, rubbernecking a brutal hit-and-run: "Looks like a black guy, huh?"

And I'd be... curious to hear the audiobooks of some of his novels, especially if the reader is a white person.

King's own audiobook interpretation of Detta Walker from Drawing of the Three is just as bad as the text would lead you to believe.

Oh god

You have just reminded me, I once had a tape of king reading some short stories, one of them was about a spy getting tortured in some murky spictatorship and king kept doing this hideously racist caricature of the torturer: "meestar fletchar!"

I was laughing too much to be too offended tbh

http://books.google.com/books?id=okDuRoND2qkC&q=graymeat

this sort of stuff.

"The Kid" was a very minor character in the original "Stand" who pretty much could have stayed on the editing floor imo. His increased presence in the long version didn't really add anything for me.

You're crazy, the long trashman/kid sequence is THE redeeming quality of the extended Stand!

You better (not) believe that happy crappy. I tell you, you don't tell me.

It didn't help that I envisioned The Kid as that Elvis-y looking kid in the Luann comic strip, but yeah that happy crappy crap wore on my nerves. I always picture coked-out King wildly retyping his catch-phrases in that book. M-O-O-N, that spells Tom Cullen, Laws. yes!

Ah yes the magical simpleton, another king staple!

I needed a new display name so

Trashcan Man's entire life and character make no sense at all in the updated timeline. He's supposed to be, what, early 20s in the book? So born in the late 60s? And yet is harassed as a teen by hoodlum classmates right out of the 50s? And travels to Las Vegas singing "Ci-a-bola!" to the tune of a Tower of Power song that was a minor hit in 1972?

Also, one of Stu Redman's pals in Texas needs to be about 15 years older than he is, as I believe he makes a reference to having served in Korea.

And I don't like the changed opening. I always liked the feel of opening with the peaceful East Texas night disrupted by this threat that arrives out of nowhere. Opening the book with Campion escaping from the base with his wife and child removes the power of that.

This is one of my favorite books, and now you've all got me hating it.

Totally agree on the power of the original intro. The changed intro doesn't work nearly as well for me.

Still one of my favorite books, still prefer the o.g. original.

Bump-de-bump-de-bump!

I mean, it's amazing how much I love many of his books, considering some of his huge drawbacks discussed above: the staple, one-dimensional characterizations, the racism, the overwriting, the lack of plausible endings... he sure can write a page-turner in spite of all that.

He excels at creepy set-pieces, which is one reason why his short stories are so much more effective.

Even his worst work contains some horrifyingly memorable imagery (the transformation of the townspeople in The Tommyknockers... brrr)

To what extent does he sell 'in spite of' vs 'because of' tho

to some extent

hth

Definitely the characterisation is a selling point: his stock types are "colourful" and he has enough insight to flesh them out and make them seem real. Unless they are non-white, or female. Alien clowns otoh

Let's not forget the bonus ending to The Stand special edition, which I've seen attacked as racist more than once.

I'm not remembering that; will investigate.

Tommyknockers was pretty much where I got off the boat with King, chronologically. I didn't hate it, but also felt I'd read too much similar stuff by him before. Can barely recall it now, but I do remember it having some effective bits.

So if my favorites are Stand/It/Shining, roughly in that order (and a huge soft spot for Christine) is there anything 1990 onwards I should check out?

Dan, I did this poll last year.

a highly selective stephen king poll

The results/participation aren't overwhelming, but there was some good discussion.

The Kennedy one xp

Duma Key is surprisingly good - fkn scary at times

11/22/63 is his best in a long while, imo

I don't think anyone can read Dolores Claiborne or Lisey's Story and continue complaining that King can't write women, really. He's certainly gotten a lot better at it over the year's, at least to the extent that I'm in a position to judge. Actual female readers may have a different opinion.

The recent short story in Full Dark, No Stars in which (SPOILERS) the main character accidentally discovers that her husband is a BTK-style serial killer is one of the best female characters he's ever written IMO.

There was another King thread, or this one ages ago, where 11/22/63 came up repeatedly. It's on my to-do list.

SO, um .. should I just abandon reading this long Stand if I've never read either edition? And just read the original?

King's magical negro stuff is embarrassing. His rednecks are racist stuff predictable and pat, though as I mentioned, I'm a hair into the uncut Stand and there has been at least one regular old person (in NYC?) who drops the n-word, too.

Basically, he's like the wordiest, most ambitious, most imaginative, most epic-minded lazy writer ever. Bundle of contradictions, ironic par for the course for a guys whose best works are either a) short stories/novellas or b) his book on how to write.

I think the opening novella to Full Dark, No Stars is one of the best things he's ever written period.

There was another King thread, or this one ages ago, where 11/22/63 came up repeatedly. It's on my to-do list.

As mentioned upthread, about 400 pages too long, too. Could have been a short story.

Let's not forget the bonus ending to The Stand special edition, which I've seen attacked as racist more than once.

That little 2 page coda is a 2 ton pile of shit. Made me so damn mad.

I've read both versions of The Stand (his overlong books are fine by me as long as I'm captivated by them) and I definitely prefer the original.

Debate/fite!

Really all of Full Dark, No Stars is great in the same way that the other novella collections (Four Past Midnight, Different Seasons) are.

I think I've only ever read the original. The updates sound horrifying enough that I would remember them.

I haven't read Full Dark yet, I keep meaning to.

Huh, I'm not sure the original version of The Stand has been released electronically. What the hell, George Lucas?

whose best works are either a) short stories/novellas or b) his book on how to write.

would argue in c) his non-fiction book on horror history

otm

Danse Macabre? is that the one? I dug that

Yeah; the 2 chapters on horror movies are a really great overview of the state of the art c. 1981.

oh yeah Danse Macabre was amazing

the alternate death scene from 'Salem's Lot, brrr