no boys allowed in the room!!!!

I rinse my hair in between washes, too, and sometimes give my scalp a scrub with my fingertips. Plus I wash my bangs or else they get really greasy.

i am obeying the instructions of my hairdresser and using special shampoo she sold me. she said it's concentrated so only use small amounts. this was her second suggestion after i refused to wash my hair less frequently because i just like washing my hair. i have more stuff in my scalp now though. like if i scratch my head it's in my fingernails. i can't get it out when i shower anymore. but it does feel like it gets greasy more slowly.

where did rrobyn go??? miss her :(

I had a dream that I posted in this thread to ask what a tampon is.

i had a dream that i said to some misogynistic jerk on facebook: "i'm embarrassed that you went to haw school"

haw school grads SHOULD know better!

Oh I remember what I wanted to post ITT

Is it just a given that guys look at porn? I mean, everyone masturbates for sure. It has always made me uncomfortable over the years that whoever I was in a relationship with was jerking it to the hot internet ladies in the other room. This makes me feel like a selfish prude bcz "sex positive" or whatever.

I grew up in a religious culture that is super weird about pornography and masturbation. A lot of that I have got over, but there was always a message that if your man likes porn, he doesn't really love you or find you attractive. I feel conflicted because I know that's not true, or that it's unreasonable to think all 100% of each other's sex needs is going to some from your partner exclusively. Is it? I can't deny that it just makes me feel bad and gross knowing that the guy I love is jerking it to porn in the other room. Also that I feel bad about feeling bad about that. The last part is the part that's fucked.

I guess the part that really bothers me is that it's in my own house, when I'm around, like...why aren't you fucking me??

Also I want to feel like it's ok to feel at the same time 'I know looking at porn is probably some basic part of human sexuality' and 'I think porn on the whole is pretty gross.' I guess I am ashamed that I have an undeniable feeling that I see as being pretty reactionary, too. I don't like that!

I suppose I'd be a bit bugged if my guy was doing it in the next room instead of with me, or at least asking me to join in! But, eh it happens esp in long term live in relationships. Try joining in! Its fun!

I find it always curious how suprised (and usually pleased) guys are when I tell em *I* look at porn. Its not that weird surely!

I didn't grow up in that culture, but I feel the same way as you, and have the same misgivings and feeling bad about feeling bad-ness.

The way I came to terms with it is that it is an aspect of the privacy and independence that is required for a relationship to be healthy.

I did try asking my guy to 'join in,' it felt like 'heh heh I tricked him' sort of manipulative to me. 'I got him to have erotic feelings for me and not the fantasy movie actress! Sucker!' Maybe an awful reaction, but true.

I agree, sarahell, that is the right outlook, and a necessary one. I have had a lot of time off work, which has meant too much time to introspect, or to fixate on relatively small things like this and make them too big. It's been hard to get my head in a good place about this. I think it helps acknowledging to myself that it's ok to find it unsavory.

There really secretly IS a part of me that thinks: Why do I have to accept that guys look at porn? Can't they just not do that? This is the same part of myself that is angry that men can't get pregnant.

I realize it's unfair to be like 'everyone should bend to MY FEELINGS.'

i remember coming across some of the porn my ex was watching while we were together, and it was very much, "ugh, really? high chroma video of permed blondes with fake tits?" I had higher hopes for his taste in porn tbh

ha, for real :(

we did watch sexy movies together and then, y'know, do it, so it wasn't as if we didn't communicate about that stuff and the role that erotic material plays in getting off.

there were just some things that he wanted to do in private - like watch porn with blondes with boob jobs and do foot hygiene

Yeah I like to wax my little moustache in private, and listen to The Police, and sometimes look at some animated gif porn on tumblr too. It is only reasonable he should have his own private set of same kind of things.

I guess it also helos that I have friends who I think are pretty sex positive, like my friend who teaches a pole fitness class, and they have this same kind of conflict about their partners' porn habits. I just want to feel ok feeling this way. I don't know how to change my feelings or what it would take to make that happen.

Pictures/videos of naked people doing it are great but porn as an industry, overall, is gross at least as far as power dynamics goes (speaking to hetero porn here, including "girl on girl" created for straight guys). You don't have to be okay with porn just to meet some "sex positive" criteria if you don't feel it. Not being cool with porn doesn't make you sex negative. It just means you are not cool with porn.

As for the initial question, it totally depends on the porn. Also frequency, general attitude towards porn v actual sex, general attitudes towards women, general attitudes towards me and my body. I think it's too complicated to reduce that to porn or no porn.

http://skepchick.org/2013/07/sex-negative/

Abbs your misgivings/discomfort are YOURS, and real, and valid, yah? And you are aware of how your history/upbringing may be playing into your discomfort, so clearly you already have a lot of self-awareness and insight going on here.

So no way am I gonna suggest that your perspective is outside any "norm," and who the fuck cares about norm, anyway!

Does your partner KNOW about your discomfort, and does he/she take that into consideration and is respectful of that? To me, that is the most important factor at work here.

That said, there are womens (me, for example) who embrace "porn" as part of an enjoyable and mutually respectful/comfortable/stimulating sex life, both as partner-sex and individual sex (aka fantasy, masturbation, etc.). But I am picky about what sorts of external eroticism we bring into our relationship; my partner is on the same page; we are attuned to each other's feelings about erotic "other" stuff (porn, toys, etc). My partner also has preferences and limits of comfort, which I respect.

I dunno this is really TMI for me, but it is an important question and we should talk about it!

Oh and I'd say that I veto about 99% of porn out there on the internets; my partner is of like mind. That's why I put "porn" in scarequotes, because the stuff I choose is like nonporny partnersex womanpositvestuff uuuugh I'm gonna STFU now.

I almost have the opposite problem. I found my Dad's porn stash pretty early in life, and so sort of grew up with it always rattling round my head, and that was how I got off for most of my teen years. But there was always, well at least later on, a guilt of knowing that I'm not the intended audience for this, I'm not supposed to even like this stuff, a lot of it is really gross but there's some kind of lizard-brain part of me that just won't let it go

idk

^^^oh I totally did this! Playboy stash = masturbation money, honey :)

OK, I totally did that too. I found my Dad's Penthouse's (I remember the one with Vanessa Williams on the cover specifically) and, um, yeah. They were extremely . . . educational. I still remember some of the pictures and forum letters in way more detail then I probably should at this point.

Sorry I missed this conversation but carl agatha otm, all of y'all otm really. My childhood vice was late night Showtime -- not sure how I feel about that but there it is. There was a brief discussion on the prior ubiquity of pornographic material/images in...everyday places (the home, the workplace) here: http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?showall=true&bookmarkedmessageid=4444941&boardid=77&threadid=91485

it's not directly related to the conversation, but while we're exchanging attitudes and norms about this stuff, I thought it was relevant.

agh sorry that was a 77 link dunno if that was stupid or not
sorry!

also warning: nsfw if your w does not permit the viewing of images with nudity, however educational

I feel oddly neutral about porn. Personally I still sometimes watch it even though I find it less effective than erotic writings, but that's not why. I think it's because I had a partner briefly who didn't want me to have anything private, so he insisted I should tell him everything about y sexual thoughts and feelings. I wasn't allowed to have secrets or keep fantasies to myself; I didn't have a right to them, they were his. I held back because I hit a wall finally, like, No, I'm not asking you for this information, what happens inside my head is MINE.

So if I want a right for myself, I have to extend it to others (unfortunately). It just decisively settled that for me. Then again I haven't been in a relationship of any duration since then, so it's never come up since.

Increasingly though I'm getting really tired of the porn I've found so far, anyway. Really emotionally tired, like I can't even watch it without playing mental Misogyny Bingo.

So if I want a right for myself, I have to extend it to others (unfortunately).
Not unfortunately, imo! I firmly believe that one's thoughts are one's own and choosing what gets out is part of the experience of living, no? I mean wtf at demanding someone else's thoughts. That's nuts!

This is, however, reminding me of a bf I had in high school who was pretty much the worst person ever (for reasons not detailed here). We used to rent videos at the video store (regular movies) basically every day after school and then watch in his smelly room while his mom was in the kitchen. Eventually maybe a few months after we broke up (finally), I went to that video store with someone else and somehow, I can't really remember how, I discovered that my ex bf was one of their most regular back room customers. It all started to make sense, so I always associate traditional porn discovery with that moment and him, unfortunately.

Does your partner KNOW about your discomfort, and does he/she take that into consideration and is respectful of that?

Yeah, when I have the fortitude to remember my tactful assertiveness Mad Libs sentences and speak up, he is nothing but kind and responsive and respectful. We have pretty different schedules – me normal daytime schedule w/varying end time based on work load, him w/work shifts that end at 1 or 3 a.m. and begin either in the morning or afternoon. This means a lot of overlap when we're not home, so plenty of time/space for us to do our own private things. I would come home sometimes around 4:30, him about to leave for a shift starting at 5, and find him jerking it in front of his compy. So when I asked, 'hey could you please do that earlier in the day, it makes me uncomfortable to come home to that,' he was understanding and made a change.

The other problem is sometimes when he is watching porn in the middle of the night, he'll crash out having left a video on loop, which means I wake up and find video that's very distressing to me, e.g. a bleach blonde lady, double anal. Like, this has happened enough that I know his tastes in porn p well, which really I would have been glad never to know. I feel understanding of 'oh you're about to go to sleep and forget to turn something off' which I do in a legit more volatile way, like leaving a shitty grocery store pizza in the oven all night. But still – !!!!

I want to thank everyone itt for sharing, man! The plurality of viewpoints is good. I feel a lot better just being able to discuss this.

bleach blonde lady, double anal is definitely the porn equivalent of a shitty grocery store pizza! ha

That would make me unhappy, too, Abbs. Like, you can only respect someone's privacy to the extent that they KEEP IT PRIVATE duh.

Agree.

Once I talked to him about it it started happening LESS but still every once in a while, and usually around a time when my maudlin ole heart is looking for something to kick itself about.

You gotta tell him straight up that he needs to be 100% discreet or find another way -- this is clearly bothering you a lot! That's just IMO and I'm a v direct person, grain of salt.

" when he is watching porn in the middle of the night, he'll crash out having left a video on loop, which means I wake up and find video that's very distressing to me, e.g. a bleach blonde lady, double anal. Like, this has happened enough that I know his tastes in porn p well"

I think the degree to which this might bother me would also probably have to do with the frequency with which it happened. It if was a once or twice then whatever but if I had a partner who was routinely watching porn in the middle of the night while I was right there in the next room I think it would probably start to bother me quite a lot.

Well, that seems like the obvious solution. Will do.
xp

"you can only respect someone's privacy to the extent that they KEEP IT PRIVATE duh."

Yeah, this is big.

I mean, is he asking you to, errr, join in because if not this seems kind of hugely disrespectful imo.

IDK, as much as it makes me feel shitty and bad, it seems like a genuine mistake when he does leave it on (it has happened maybe 6x in the eight months I've lived w/him), and it's not like whatever his porn habits are have interfered with our sex life. Maybe we/he could just move his computer to a room that's outside my morning mole trail.

I don't want to deny anyone their little pleasures, I have def had the thought, "I could never live with someone because there would go my chance to get myself off the way I like and then leave any accoutrements wherever I happen to drop them and go to sleep in peace" (even though I know we've talked about how this isn't necessarily the case irl, which is great). Even the nicest hypothetical boyfriend probably doesn't want to have to remove the vibrator from his side of the bed where I chucked it 5 nights out of 7. But falling asleep with porn on loop when you know your gf will wake up and be upset by it is insensitive? I mean, you DO live together, a person has get shipshape to their partner's satisfaction not because what they were doing is wrong but because they're responsive to their partner.

^^^

Yeah, I totally agree.

otm

I think the other ladies have covered all the vitals so: make him turn off the looping function! Sheesh! I would give my husband hell just for that annoyance.

Even the nicest hypothetical boyfriend probably doesn't want to have to remove the vibrator from his side of the bed where I chucked it

Nor does the nicest female flatmate confronted by similar but in the bathroom (whoops yes. I did this once. Argh)

I'm only barely scratching the surface of some femininity ideas in my life rn but I think it's possible that deep down I don't think I deserve to have a sexual nature, or interact with others as if I do, unless I'm performing femininity a certain way? Like that's the entrance requirement to participating in human mating rituals.

Like I said in the dating ish thread, I haven't had to perform much of anything for a while, because outside of work life I pretty much only do things with people who accept me however I am; I don't have to dress up for my friends. But I put on a skirt suit and heels for an interview the other week and I realized I put on a whole schtick with it, one in which I'm a "woman" in a different way. It wasn't unpleasant, it was fun, and I can still walk in heels juuust fine, but I knew it was a temporary role, and it's hard to remember that I did that 5x a week for 10 years and I wonder, did that disempower me a little? I think it made me a little more malleable, not that anyone would ever describe me as docile but I think I lost something.

Still interrogating.