Big Star

Stipey might have hated the Byrds but Peter Buck was always open about his fervent fanhood

Stipe didn't care for the Beatles either. This could be a bit of frontman contrarianism, or maybe something to do with MS having plenty of blind spots in terms of the canon, unlike Buck.

Whether or not Stipe or Buck liked the Byrds, there's definitely more than a little Byrds in the REM. More Byrds than Big Star, that's for sure. Minimal Burma and Pere Ubu, to my ears, though I can hear how the latter two could be influences.

The Byrds similarities were heavily played up in R.E.M.'s early days, so Stipe might've just been reacting strongly to try to shake them off a bit (and in fact from Fables on, the jangly Rickenbacker thing became far less of a defining characteristic).

growing up in the south, I heard REM's declarations of Big Star fandom as a nod to ~left of the dial~ southern roots, because there weren't a lot of precedents for ambitious alt-y rock bands from the south

I know they talked it up in the press at the time, but I was really hard-pressed to discern any of Big Star's "Third" in TFC's "Bandwagonesque". The wall of distorted guitars that were the center of TFCs approach at that time seemed worlds away from "Third" to me.

― the Spanish Porky's (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 June 2013 22:06 (Yesterday) Permalink

Not 3rd, but Radio City absolutely. At least half of Bandwagonesque sounds like it could have been outtakes from Big Star's second album - compare, say, "What You Do To Me" to "Back of a Car". My ears sense substantial Badfinger influence on Teenage Fanclub as well.

Whether or not Stipe or Buck liked the Byrds, there's definitely more than a little Byrds in the REM. More Byrds than Big Star, that's for sure.

― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, June 29, 2013 3:51 PM (28 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Really, there's alot of Byrds in Big Star too.

Oh, man, Big Star totally subsumed the Beatles and Byrds. When my guitar teacher and I went trough the first two albums in their entirety - he was barely familiar with them - we were shocked by how well they nailed George's sound in particular, or perhaps generally the Beatles c. the White Album. He also loved the Strat sound on the second album, which was done with old-school tube compressors (like the Beatles) but which he heard as a distant precursor to the compressed Strat sound of the '80s. The '70s, after all, were a real Les Paul decade, so of course Alex would shift from Les Paul to Strat.

xpost. the modern lovers addition of Foggy Notion to their repertoire would have before Big Star added Femme Fatale & Candy Says, yeah?
probably right around the same time? at least that precise modern lovers version of foggy notion is from 73. though knowing richman, he had most likely been playing VU songs since 68-69.

I don't hear a ton of Big Star in REM, but I hear the Byrds in both. Listen to "Candy" from Dr. Byrds and Mr. Hyde - practically sounds like Chilton on lead vocals.

Alex in New York at the Chelsea Hotel, 1970. Note copy of Untitled in his hand.

http://obrienphotography-wp.eblox.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Alex-Chilton.jpg

BTW, since he was in NYC in '70, I wonder if Alex ever dropped in to Max's and caught a VU set?

Note copy of Untitled in his hand.
Good catch.

practically sounds like Chilton on lead vocals.

"After a period in New York City, during which Chilton worked on his guitar technique and singing style (some of which was believed to have been influenced by a chance meeting with Roger McGuinn at a friend's apartment in New York when Chilton was impressed with McGuinn's singing and playing), Chilton returned to Memphis in 1971..."

xp Another early VU cover, from 1971

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov6ZI58ozYE

Was reading the Mats book and I came across this:

Somewhere along the line, I found myself in the backyard standing across from Alex Chilton. I gave him a few general compliments and then gave special attention to "Hey Little Child." I told him I loved the rhythm. Alex smiled and said, "Yeah, the old cha cha cha." Like it was one o his first girlfriends. A few seconds later, he told me he was going downstairs and he invited me to come along. Soon I found myself in a crowded basement, seated on an old couch surrounded by Alex Chilton, Freedy Johnston and Slim Dunlap, and everyone but me and Peter Jesperson had a guitar. The guys were trading songs and riffs in a gentlemanly way, but the aural dance floor cleared when Alex started playing transcriptions he'd done of Nina Simone solos and then, mind-blowingly, of Wagner's overtures. It was amazing. Watching Alex's fingers crawl up and down the frets like a family of crazy spiders, I go the impression he could do whatever occurred to him on that guitar, that anything was possible and that every note he chose to play had a green glow around it, the glow of having been chosen among millions of options. It was magical, virtuosic, gracious, infinite, unexpected and completely perfect.

what if alex chilton have been in the traveling wilburys

There shoulda been a Bizarro World Traveling Wilburys with Chilton, Arthur Lee, Roky Erickson, and Skip Spence.

still never heard this one:

http://www.discogs.com/Alan-Vega-Alex-Chilton-Ben-Vaughn-Cubist-Blues/release/1320578

that's one of the best records, seriously.

Idiot Hollywood blogger Jeff Wells: "Big who?":
http://www.hollywood-elsewhere.com/2013/07/didnt-last-long-didnt-tour-much/

it's like i always say, if i've never heard of them, they must suck!

Wells is such a moron. And I love how much Glenn Kenny likes to poke at him.

The comments are interesting. Wells (whom I've never heard of, I don't think): "I've always been reasonably aware of pretty much everything that happens of any importance or avant-garde-ness or catchiness, perhaps only in a passing or fragmentary but...you know, if the right fly or mosquito flaps its wings in a cool, never-before, half-interesting way, I tend to at least hear about that."

To make this statement and not have heard of Big Star is a real stretch for me. I mean, I'd never heard of Manuel Göttsching until I read about him here, and I'd never heard of Arvo Part until I watched Gerry one night a couple of years ago, but Manuel Göttsching and Arvo Part aren't Big Star, right?

he is deluded about what he's aware of. The guy is a film blogger (actually, an awards blogger) and didn't have any use for Abbas Kiarostami til his last film. The last week he is his own parody...

first place i heard about big star was in an obscure music magazine called rolling stone, about 20 years ago now.

I love how " I would have at least picked up on a fragment of their lore, their sound…" is followed up by the barrage of "That 70s Show? Replacements? Bangles?" comments, like multiple hits to the head.

but Manuel Göttsching and Arvo Part aren't Big Star, right?

― clemenza, Monday, July 1, 2013 9:50 AM (16 seconds ago)

well, they are (part is arguably more influential & well-known), but only their respective certain circles/streams. i'm not surprised, even at my advanced age, to so frequently stumble across "important" artists of whom i've never heard. then again, i don't claim to catch wind of culture's every butterfly wingbeat...

Alex started playing transcriptions he'd done of Nina Simone solos and then, mind-blowingly, of Wagner's overtures

So when Alex shouted out, during a particularly rambunctious take of "Take Me Home and Make Me Like It" on the "Bach's Bottom" album, it was more than just a funny aside?

What I knew and didn't know growing up had less to do with relative obscurity than with four books: Christgau's '70s guide, the red Rolling Stone guide, Lillian Roxon's encyclopedia, and Logan & Woffinden's encyclopedia. If they weren't in one of those, like Göttsching and Part, then I likely didn't find out about them until my 30s or 40s. If, as with Big Star's prominence in Christgau's book, they were, then I knew about them, though sometimes I wouldn't actually hear them until later. (I just checked, and Big Star aren't in either the red or blue Rolling Stone guide, I guess because their albums weren't in print.)

So when Alex shouted out, during a particularly rambunctious take of "Take Me Home and Make Me Like It" on the "Bach's Bottom" album, it was more than just a funny aside?

LOL I forgot to put in what he shouted out which was, of course, in his delicious accent, "IT'S GETTING LIKE WAGNER"

I've never heard of REM, the Byrds, Beach Boys, or Beatles, and I know a lot about music. For instance, did you know a band called Black Sabbath recently reunited? I think one of the Beastie Boys used to be in that band. Ever heard of the Beastie Boys? They're really good, though I liked them better before they went rock. I wonder when they'll put out a new record?

Thing about that asshat Wells is his stubborn ignorance in the face of ample evidence, his refusal to admit wrong and instance on doubling down on the most ridiculous stuff.

So, I guess a Doobie Brothers documentary would be more up your alley, Wells?

nice Artforum piece on the doc

http://www.artforum.com/film/id=41722

New York opening is today !

also VOD

Elliott Smith's name spelled wrong in the iTunes listing. Will rent this ASAP regardless.

Will have to get it via VOD/iTunes since it's not playing anywhere even close to me.

new dn anyway

Alex Chilton actually did what some people probably thought the Velvet Underground were trying do—but wouldn't have collectively had the stomach for anyway—which is to present a vaguely and pervasively frightening vision, the world ending with a whimper not a bang, the looming horror of the madness yet to come. etc. etc.

The Velvet Underground ends as a grotesque Archie comic on Loaded, but there's so much about Big Star that really, really scares me because of Third/Sister Lovers and makes me want to go to the dentist and get my teeth fixed and so forth.

I actually only got into Big Star three to four months ago because I was looking to buy a compressor pedal for my electric guitar. People kept saying, "If you want to know how a compressor works, listen to Big Star." And then I heard "September Gurls."

The Velvet Underground ends as a grotesque Archie comic on Loaded

Fucking great album you mean

"13" is about as "grotesque Archie comic" as you can get. in a good way.

The guys were trading songs and riffs in a gentlemanly way, but the aural dance floor cleared when Alex started playing transcriptions he'd done of Nina Simone solos and then, mind-blowingly, of Wagner's overtures.

The Cliches album wasn't a guitar showcase, exactly, but it did include his take on J.S. Bach's Gavotte.

People kept saying, "If you want to know how a compressor works, listen to Big Star."

Yeah, man, they learned so much about everything from the Beatles. Think of the guitar solo in "Nowhere Man" ...

The doc was OK, not great. They maybe did as well as they could considering how little footage exists, or how few photos or, you know, how many living members of Big Star. They used a lot of photos and images multiple times, and there was a bit where I thought a TGI Fridays doc would be a cooler use of time, but there was some neat stuff in this.

So is Big Star the closest any major rock band has come to losing all its members? What other bands (of, say, three or more) are down to one?

Ramones are down to their drummers (and CJ), only Michelle's left of the Mamas & Papas

Oh, that's right, re: Ramones!

Skynyrd getting there.

Jimi Hendrix Experience completely gone.

How quickly we (I) forget.