You Want Superman Revamp? [Also the Man of Steel (2013) thread]

In the TV version, which boasts an extra half hour and is to me the definitive version despite not existing anywhere, the villains don't disappear forever into the ice. As Lex talks Supes into cutting him slack outside the Fortress of Solitude, the "Polar Patrol" or something is seen in the back leading the villains by gunpoint into a van.

effete willowy sadist far more memorable and effective than bellowing batshit meathead

― i didn't even give much of a fuck that you were mod (forksclovetofu), Monday, June 17, 2013 12:44 AM (41 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

See: montalban as khan

― we're up all night to get (s1ocki),

wait...isn't Montalban a willowy bellowing sadist?

I'm glad this shit is just a moderate hit

yeah I'm not shocked people aren't running back for more when there are so many other options. another reason I'm guessing the next supes will be considerably lighter (assuming they don't try the justice league bullshit). I mean you've got daily planet, you've presumably got luthor, you don't need to tell no origin story...

i feel like the screenwriter was really exorcising some bad memories of a time he didn't plug a USB memory stick in fully enough with this script

lol

ah why won't the little light at the end of this damn thing go on!?

- superman himself, what a big zero, the movie basically yawned anytime he was on screen

thought this was pretty much the worst thing about it, people who say 'superman is a boring character' are almost always dumb/unimaginative but this movie makes their case for them pretty well

i was actually kind of amazed after like an hour and a half of film that superman was still not an actual character and the guy we'd been watching for the whole movie still had no identifiable personality. i mean theres a lot of blockbusters with boring or 2-dimensional characters, but at least they're recognizable as characters

i did really dig the fight scene in smallville. faora and the big guy tagteaming superman was pretty exciting and unlike any superhero fight i'd seen before. snyder has some pretty neat visual ideas there and he pulls them off with relative restraint (no speed ramping!). the idea of the camera reflecting a human POV and just barely keeping up with what's happening is executed really nicely even though it could've been a mess in less capable hands

they were definitely faster than a speeding bullet

that's definitely a big reason I prefer Superman II to Man Of Steel, too. but if you're going to complain that a superman movie has idiotic plotting and supes killing Zod, it's worth noting it's not the first.

― da croupier, Wednesday, June 26, 2013 8:27 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm not of the opinion that he killed Zod in II, both for the reasons Alfred mentioned, and cuz he had no reason to since his powers were gone. But yeah, Superman II had a slew of holes in it, and generally, I find it annoying when people over analyze comic book movie plotholes (ie, bitching about whether Batman was 6 or more miles outside the blast zone in TDKR when they accepted that Scarecrow had magical "freakout" gas that scrambled people's brains in BB).

but Superman II worked despite its flaws because it had memorable characters and scenes, and kept its general story simple. Had it been as leaden as MoS upon arrival, I'm sure some of those flaws would have annoyed me more.

Superman's complete lack of personality was so bizarre given the 'ooooh CONFLICTED' set-up. Then he was like yeah I met my ghost dad, we're chill. Just need to check with this priest but I think i'm gonna out myself and be a decent guy now.

And considering the focus above everything else on'how will the WORLD react to the evidence that we're not alone?' there were precisely zero reactions beyond 'huh, aliens you say, better shoot them with more guns, I guess'

Was at least expecting weary FBI agents fielding calls from crazy rednecks saying they are the alien beings Zod is looking for.

I'm not of the opinion that he killed Zod in II, both for the reasons Alfred mentioned, and cuz he had no reason to since his powers were gone.

"he didn't kill zod because they released a different version for network tv, plus there was a lack of motivation"? For real, guys?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUORL-bvwA0

I mean, points to Lester for not having a brutal cracking sound after each plummet but you're kind of in denial if you don't accept that, in the theatrical version (which was also the cable and VHS version I saw countless times as a kid), there's no reason on screen to believe they're not dead.

otherwise hold judgment on Man Of Steel until you see what family edit shows up on ABC family within two years

I saw it in '81 in its original run but was too young to remember whether they died plummeting through the ice. The version I watched for years on VHS was the TV version. so, no, I had no reason to believe they died. I didn't rent a copy until the nineties, and that's when I saw the, uh, differences.

I never thought they died when I was a kid, there's a bit of a difference between haha I got the better of you chumps gleefully chucking someone in to some ice and disappearing in to spooky mist and snapping someone's neck with a shot of their limp body hitting the ground with a thud

Comic book rules imo

haha yeah it's not even ice, right? It's spooky mist.

taking one look at their clothes, he threw them into hot tubs

Also he can snap his neck because he's super strong eh, they're in a world of cardboard before that so they can chuck each other through as many buildings as they like (not that it isn't really stupid anyway)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwU0QkcrNVQ

xp yeah exactly! And if you wanna go there you can be all it's the fortress of solitude etc etc who knows what rules we're playing by there (well, Superman's). Prob just sent them down to the hot tub prison, and taking in to account the tone of the film and everything, Lois getting her own back, Lex joeks

Maybe even an ice cold tub, so they can think about what they've done

What we know for sure: Supes broke every bone in Zod's hand.

Batman would approve

for the record, the Richard Donner cut (which I actually wasn't a huge fan of, as assembled), Superman II ended with Supes repeating his spinning the earth backwards time travel trick so that the three never escaped the Phantom Zone.

(which is relaly fucking stupid, I mean, if superman can do that, why doesn't he just do that anytime something crappy happens?)

really? that's pretty disappointing

And most fans prefer that atrocity.

xposted to quid agonies:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/26/booming/no-nachos-for-you-general-zod-were-on-weight-watchers.html

(which is relaly fucking stupid, I mean, if superman can do that, why doesn't he just do that anytime something crappy happens?)

― Neanderthal, Thursday, June 27, 2013 8:53 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

more to the point, it doesn't make any fucking sense. but i still enjoy it at the end of the 1978 movie.

Yeah, I think you can forgive those flaws in the original series because the storytelling and characters were so enjoyable. I generally get annoyed when I see those blog posts like "FIVE THINGS WRONG WITH XXX FILM" and it's all CaptanLoraxian posts like "OMG A STEEL GIRDER WOULDN'T BEND LIKE THAT IF SUPERMAN BANGED HIS HEAD INTO IT". Nine times out of ten you can rebut with a simple "THIS IS A MOVIE ABOUT A HUMAN SPIDER/DUDE THAT CAN FLY/GUY WHO BUILT A SUIT IN A CAVE/GUY WHO TURNS INTO A DEAF BODYBUILDER WHEN HE'S ANGRY" reply.

Alright, this question must be asked - in ineptitude, this film vs Superman IV: The Quest for Peace?

captainlorax has told me to quibble w/ yr use of 'original series'

i would have loved this movie a lot more if it had been all about supes trying to prevent a nuclear war

i think my favorite superman moment was in millers dark knight returns where he *almost* sacrifices himself to divert a Russian nuclear warhead

one thing i'll give this movie is actually having weird stuff like space dragons and metal space snakes and space robot buddies that hang around with the els on krypton, the kind of things you see in comic books but rarely in comic book movies (like that dumb fantastic four movie where galactus was a big storm. hate how movies tend to tamp down the crazier/fantastical stuff you see in comics.

yeah i was definitely on board with all of that (still shaking my head at cloud galactus). like i said upthread the krypton stuff at the beginning reminded me of jodo's Metabarons, though it was missing the gonzo/frenzied tone

also liked: the copier toner gag

haha yes that was actually funny and stood out for being the only moment of levity in the whole thing

(i guess there was a bit of forced lois banter but it was p awkward)

amy adams is lovable enough to pull that off more or less effortlessly

takes two to tango.

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/notyetamovie/news/?a=81579&utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_66967

mark waid otm

WS Supe's mom btw

(Kryptonian that is)

waid's otm about the build-up being missing. superman being unconcerned with all the people dying is a misstep not because "thats not superman" but just because its a big missed opportunity to make what's happening matter - it's such a no-brainer to milk 'superman frantically trying to save lives/prevent destruction' to make for a more exciting/engaging seqeuence, along with making it seem like the character actually has convictions or possesses any humanity

would've accepted kryptonianity

H4a otm

waid's otm about the build-up being missing. superman being unconcerned with all the people dying is a misstep not because "thats not superman" but just because its a big missed opportunity to make what's happening matter - it's such a no-brainer to milk 'superman frantically trying to save lives/prevent destruction' to make for a more exciting/engaging seqeuence, along with making it seem like the character actually has convictions or possesses any humanity

― i wanna be a gabbneb baby (Hungry4Ass), Thursday, June 27, 2013 5:18 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

ya exactly. plus supes' dean scream just means nothing if we have no idea what his moral code is supposed to be.

(i'm still stuck on pops kent being all "mayyyybeeeee" when young clark asked him if he should have let the bully kid die)

i thought pa's mixed signals were more sympathetic in context than in the trailer, but I think having those random flashbacks only made supes' evolution even muddier

well if i were pa kent i'd be a bit more like "couldn't you have saved him in a less obvious way, doofus?"

also the idea that superman would let someone die to protect his identity is just like, so ridiculously against any idea of superman i could possibly imagine, even if it's a gritty new interpretation. i dunno it's just fucked up

I get the idea that this Pa Kent is supposed to be principled and admirable but kind of a dick and selfishly protective - like humanity itself from Supes' POV. Of course, Snyder/Goyer's way too hamfisted to pull it off so we get a bunch of fragments that don't really add up. Gotta say, iirc you were ok with the movie where Superman would owe child support if the mom knew his government name, so I'm surprised you're this up in arms about it.

Pa Kent chose to die in the tornado because he wasn't attracted to Ma Kent anymore

also gambling debts