70s Salsa (was The Fania Label 1970-1980: S/D)

I just downloaded "Hard Hands" so I could help out and I'm still not sure about Barretto's "Ahora Si!"

"Descarga" is more like, very open-ended, improvisation-oriented, sort of like jazz, but too far over on the Latin dance side of things to really be Latin jazz (though it's not an obvious distinction). I don't think "Hard Hands" is Latin jazz. It sort of straddles the line between salsa and Latin soul, I think.

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vahid, you may simply want to stay in the 60s and early 70s if you want similar things. Hmmm, might like Azuquita's Pura Salsa which is from a bit later but retains some Latin soul/boogaloo feel.

http://s38.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0VQKLPA8H9K3T1FQGD7I71AMT6

http://s38.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=11UPY8PUZFUD219ZX9RW41XLI4

Eddie Palmieri - Vamonos Pa'l Monte (1976 Tico). This is killer. It's has more of an abstract jazz vibe than any of the Fania stuff I've heard and the sound is much fuller and more atmospheric. Caminando is probably the standout track with its tin can vocal effects, funky drumming and wild organ parts.

Ricardo Ray & Bobby Cruz - 1975 (1974 Vaya). I haven't listened to this much yet but there are at least a couple of great songs on here. Ray & Cruz seem to have an affinity for weird little dissonant horn parts which I like.

Richie Ray & Bobby Cruz - El Sonido de la Bestia (1980 Vaya). Like the 1975 album they use strange dissonant touches here and there but overall this album seems a bit weaker. The only hint that the '80s are dawning is the occasional use of a '70s-style string machine that actually works pretty well.

Agreed!

I wish I knew Richie Ray & Bobby Cruz as more than just names.

. . .A retrospective of classics 1960s and 1970s New York salsa can be envisioned as a beast with three heads: one in the experimental vein led by Eddie Palmieri and Willie Colon; a second, "heavy" one in the Arsenio-Chappotin vein, led by Larry Harlow and Ray Barretto; and a third in the lighter Matancera style, led by Johnny Pacheco and Celia Cruz, that at times appeared to overpower the others. . . .

Puerto Rico, in turn, had its own schools, growing out of the combined influence of Cortijo and also the Sonora Matancera [originally Cuban, of course]. The most famous group, El Gran Combo de Puerto Rico, was founded in 1862 by members of Cortijo's original combo after Rafael Cortijo and his lead vocalist, Ismael Rivera, were incarcerated for drug possession. El Gran Combo carried Cortijo's legacy into the 1960s and 1970s, even after Cortijo and Rivera formed salsa bands of their own. Puerto Rico's other principal band, the Sonora Poncena, was founded in the 1950s. Originally modeled on Cuba's Sonora Matancera, the Poncena underwent several transitions and by the mid-1970s emerged with a style that retained the bright trumpets of its Cuban model but was fused with the heavy sound of the Arsenio school and the dynamic delivery of the Cortijo school. . .

I think this is either a son montuno or a cha cha cha. Probably son montuno because I think that's what walter said the liner notes said.

Just about every Fania All Stars album I've heard has a track kind of like this.

It's funny: I got mixed up originally about what you had said--plus I hadn't heard "Ahora Si," and I was thinking you were liking the most crossoverish sounding stuff from the 60s, but now it turns out you are actually liking something which is maybe "rootsier" than what I like. (But don't let that turn you off to it.)

I think you would like a lot of Fania All Stars, Johnny Pacheco, and Larry Harlow recordings, for starters (although they don't all sound like this, obviously). I think it would be worth your while to check out Larry Harlows album Salsa. Also, I bet you'd like most of Markolino Dimond/Frankie Dante's Beethoven's V.

I don't know much about boogaloo at all.

Anyway, if you like son montuno then you can always dip back into older Cuban recordings (or newer recordings of that style), and lots of salsa, etc. etc.

my salsa explorations sort of ground to a halt, much faster than i'd hoped. SO DIFFICULT TO FIND! out here in sunny san diego most latin listeners are looking for norteno or ranchera or something what's called "regional mexicana" at the record store. there's a pretty well-stocked "tropical" section at most chain stores but it's 75% ultra-glossy current pop from central america, rounded out with some current lite-latin-jazz from 70s figures.

all i've really managed to pick up are a couple of willie colon albums. no dice on siembra unfortunately. no luck finding any fania all-stars albums of note. and when i do turn up nice looking reissues, they're always on Get Back! or some other euro label so they're like 25 bucks for a 40 minute album! (ok they have nice LP-style sleeves but still!)

I think I've heard good things about that compilation, but there might be more obvious choices. I'm not too familiar with Arsenio Rodriguez's music. (I know who he is and sort of why he's important.) I don't think it's necessarily the horn section really.

As a dancer, it's easy to draw a line between what's salsa and what isn't. (Salsa = Latin music to which I can dance the steps I learned in my salsa class, with reasonable comfort.) Otherwise, it does become a little fuzzy. A lot of people say that New York salsa has a different sort of rhythmic drive than Cuban music even when it's basically sticking to a Cuban formula. I think there's something to that, though I wouldn't want to try to elaborate.

I finally got my turntable hooked up to my computer so here is the first track from Ricardo Ray & Bobby Cruz - 1975...

http://s12.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=22MQ4IVVJ6ZOE027YP39YOBGL4

http://s24.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3089PZ1MM8SVA1I4ADYU0HYJ9G

Sonora Poncena - Fuego En El 23
Ray, Richie - El Sonido De La Bestia
Blades, Ruben - Bohemio Y Poeta
Colon, Willie - Siembra
Cruz, Celia - Celia & Johnny
Colon, Willie - El Malo
Pacheco, Johnny / Pete "Conde" Rodriguez - Los Compadres
Rodriguez, Pete "El Conde" - I Like It Like That
La Lupe - Es La Reina
Harlow, Larry - Yo Soy Latino
Valentin, Bobby - Rey Del Bajo
Lavoe, Hector - La Voz
Betancourt, Justo - Leguleya No
Puente, Tito - Para Los Rumberos
Rivera, Ismael - Maelo
Palmieri, Eddie - Vamonos Pa'l Monte
Pacheco, Johnny - El Maestro
Roena, Roberto - Apollo Sound 5
Palmieri, Charlie - El Gigante Del Teclado
Tipica 73 - Charangueando Con La Tipica
Barretto, Ray - Acid
Cruz, Celia - Cuba Y Puerto Rico Son...
Miranda, Ismael - Asi Se Compone Un Son
Feliciano, Cheo - Cheo
Bataan, Joe - Riot
Ramirez, Louie - Ali Baba
Brothers, Lebron - Salsa Y Control
Santamaria, Mongo - Solrito
Cuba, Joe - Bang! Bang! Push, Push
Orquesta Inmensidad - La Salsa De Hoy

Santiago, Adalberto: Adalberto
Lavoe, Hector: De Ti Depende
Colon, Willie: Fantasmas
Cruz, Celia: Homenaje A Beny More
Barretto, Ray: Indestructible
Blades, Ruben: Maestra Vida Vol. 1
Colon, Santos: Siempre Santitos

(Hmmm. Does that make it NSFW?)

Over the next year, I expect to finally buy truckloads of these things.

Someone hooked me up with a copy of this, which I know nothing about and have never heard of previously, and it's pretty good. There's a goofy party theme to it, but even that is handled okay. A cover of "Cisco Kid." Some great fast-paced vibes and flute stuff. I am just assuming it's from the 70's.

A crack set of early 70s Latin, played by "the cream of New York" -- a group that includes Louie Ramirez on piano, vibes, and organ, and Mauricio Smith on flute and sax! The whole album's pretty darn great, with a really strong jazzy touch -- thanks to great work by Ramirez and Smith -- and at some level, the feel of the record is similar to that of labelmates Ocho, with an equally righteous blend of styles. Most tracks have vocals, but the main focus is on the strong instrumentation -- and 2 cuts on the set are instrumentals. Titles include "Salta Perico", "El Party", "Quimbia", "Mi Pais", and a great funky cover of "Cisco Kid"!

Woah! That's the only record by eiher of them that I own. I got it the Gigante (a kind of Mexican K-Mart) in Puebla or somewhere in Mexico, in their discount bin. My brother made me get it, he was living there in the early-mid 80s I dug it, my friends all hated it.

that looks awesome

It figures.

Anyway, that's their best album together, from what I've heard of their work (and I don't think I've ever come across even one person who dissents from that view).

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The La Crema you mean? It actually is really good. It's not as crazy as the cover makes it look, but in the beginning there are people ringing a doorbell and coming in to the party, and then at the end there's party-leaving chatter as well. I didn't realize Louie Ramirez was involved until I Googled it, but I generally like him (as vibraphonist and as arranger/bandleader).

I have the English translation of that book, Faces Of Salsa, and it is a very good read.

I should get that book

Thursday interview 7:30 et with Cita Rodriguez , singer w/ Mambo Legends Orchestra and daughter of Pete El Conde Rodriguez , Fania artist, sponsored by the Hostos Center for Arts & Culture as part of the Conversaciones Musica series

https://www.facebook.com/1661302984112144/posts/2861425087433255/?d=n

RIP Fania label legendary pianist Larry Harlow

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/20/1029760076/larry-harlow-salsa-music-icon-dead

RIP Larry. Have been obsessed with this record for a while.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y9uwafGrlM

Thanks. So many cool little elements to “Dame un Tipi”— the spoken tone of the woman vocalist, the steady driving clave backbeat via Harlow and others, the various instrumental touches thrown on top

The whole album is delicious. It's a shame it's so ridiculously expensive on Discogs!