Clarence White-Era Byrds

best stuff from this era is live don't you think?

The studio half of Untitled is quality goods.

xp probably! but i've been digging ballad of easy rider and the studio stuff on untitled a bit more lately. i'm now a gene parsons convert.

here's a deep cut that stood out to me the last time around
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQND8VwGQT4
hits a nice "everybody's talking" vibe

and though the byrds' "it's all over now baby blue" doesn't make it to the heights of the 13th Floor Elevators' version (or Them's for that matter) it's still prety awesome.

I think one of the sad things about this era of the band is how they became less interested in outside material as they went on. The Lowell George stuff cut during Untitled and the Jackson Browne material from Byrdmaniax pointed in a otherwise unexplored direction of new blood. I wish that McGuinn had the nerve to say, "That's a nice tune, Skip. But I've got these cool John Prine songs I'd rather do."

The studio half of Untitled is quality goods.

― Mr. Mojo Readin' (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, June 11, 2013 3:11 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

well 2/3 of it is, i guess. always liked gene parsons's (?) reading of truck stop girl.

i have some gene parsons solo album in my shelves. it's very pleasant, sometimes more than that, but i tend to forget about it. and when i'm in a fix for that laid-back country-rock sound i'll pull out about 5-10 LPs before that, notably the self-titled, first-post-gram-parsons flying burrito brothers LP.

i think it's clarence white singing "truck stop girl"?
haven't heard gene parsons' solo stuff.

i really like this era.
title track on 'father along' is a gorgeous version i think. heavy-as-shit 'wheel's on fire' from dr. byrds is another highlight

yeah "farther along" is great... love "oil in my lamp" too -- this era had great harmonies too, though obviously different from the "classic" era of the band.
always wondered why the byrds are sort of absent from the big "event" festivals of the late 60s/early 70s. did people think they weren't cool or something?

their harmonies change drastically once crosby leaves... as much as i hate to admit it he was kind of the linchpin of those immediately identifiable (nevertheless influential) byrds harmonies in their first few LPs

"Dr. Byrds & Mr. Hyde" is a pretty poor album for a band of the Byrds' stature to have released - yes, there are good songs on it but, Jesus, that medley, what were they thinking? "Ballad" is good, tho McGuinn's vocals are annoying on several tracks, "Untitled" is also good, but here and thereafter Skip Battin is a problem. I don't remember much about "Byrdmaniax". "Farther Along" is a bit feeble and toothless. Band went on too long imo.

Voted "Ballad".

forgot about the groovy past lives slow jam "yesterday's train" on untitled. reincarnation as a pick up line, does it get any more early 70s southern california than that? wonder if battin and parsons were into scientology.

Battin was a heavy duty Buddhist methinks

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Ballad is the last more or less solid album all the way through. ("Jack Tarr" is awful, but then again even the classic Byrds albums tended to have at least one terrible song.) Untitled has some great moments, but personally I think from that album til the end the albums were just average, with occasional songs that rose above average.

I think I've posted this on ILX before but I re-sequenced Ballad of Easy Rider with some of their alternate mixes and (superior) outtakes and after I did that it turned into one of my favorite Byrds albums. I re-made it in Spotify.

Also - Tyler, I agree about Gene Parsons. His solo album is on Spotify too, btw. It's not too bad.

i'll have to check it out!
and yeah, jack tarr is awful, though i'd like it if mcguinn sang it straight (which he probably does at some point in his career).

if anyone hasn't heard that fillmore disc it really is fantastic, just listened to it over the weekend. such an awesome guitar sound white had.

Byrdmaniax all the way. The two Clarence-sung tunes are my faves to boot.

Easy Rider and (Untitled) seem the obvious standouts (amongst the studio albums anyway) but deciding between the two not easy

Love lots of this stuff but I'm goin' with Mr. Hyde. Byrds record I listen to most.

I actually like "CItizen Kane" off of Byrdmaniax. Skip Battin wasn't all bad, he just didn't totally fit, I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbm1yfWi-e0

Skip & Flip, "It Was I" (1959) - Skip Battin and Gary Paxton a good ten+ years before Battin joined the Byrds.

VOTE IN THIS IMPORTANT POLL

Only Clarence White-era Byrds I have is on the 1990 box, and I can't remember what stuff he's on...except for the live "Lover of the Bayou," which is one of my three or four favorite Byrds songs. So I guess I should listen to more Clarence.

yes you should!
and since we're talking about the byrds, those 90s CD reissues of their catalog are really great, good packaging and liners, great remastering and well-chosen bonus tracks. and generally pretty cheap too.

I do have the Notorious reissue (single disc...was there a 2CD of this?), which I love. It's always fun to say to friends, "Hey, let's listen to the Byrds!" and putting on "Moog Raga."

You know Clarence White is on pre-Clarence White era Byrds too?

right! time between, girl with no name, change is now (i think?)... anything else?

was there a 2CD of this?
i don't think so, but man, i would much rather have that than the sweetheart two CD. (which is fine, but doesn't really improve upon the single CD)

right! time between, girl with no name, change is now (i think?)... anything else?

Probably, don't know which tracks for sure, but anywhere with something that sounds like a pedal steel but isn't a pedal steel

yeah, i guess he plays at least a bit on sweetheart too.

let's have a fine hand for the byrds

and because i just saw it, here's the sleeve to the weirdest a-side/b-side pairing of the byrds' career
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/TheByrdsYouAintGoinNowhere.jpg

Yeah, I looked it up, there's just the 1CD Notorious. Dammit, I want at least another 40 minutes of them arguing with Michael Clarke. THEY OWE ME.

And otm re: Sweetheart 2CD. The outtakes on disc 2 aren't mindblowingly revealing, and I already had the ISB stuff.

xp haha, i'm sure there's plenty more where that came from. that bonus track is so classic.

Up there with Arthur Lee trying to get Johnny Echols to play the solo on "Your Mind and We Belong Together"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rATxG-hWMIo

^^ you have prob all seen this vid before, but if not..

never need an excuse to watch it again -- one of the best things on the internet?

Wow, that's pretty amazing.

i think there's a longer version with more 'hangin around' -- that is earl scruggs on the banjer, btw.

!!! never seen that before

and yes, i agree with tyler -- one of the best things on the internet. right up there with the stevie nicks 'wild heart' dressing room demo

another good clip -- these playboy after dark things are groovy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxdMqiKI08g

So who here is going to run a Byrds artist poll?

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

What

who are the dr byrds lovers? (not that this was some amazing turnout, but just surprising -- that album has plenty of good stuff but is the definition of hodge podge). voted untitled by the way. listened to the "unissued" bonus disc yesterday, some killer stuff on there (studio "lover of the bayou", unadorned "kathleen's song," "white lightning," etc).

It's their worst 60s album by a country mile

Based on what little I know about Clarence-era Byrds, I assumed untitled would be the clear winner (I mean, jeez, for "Lover of the Bayou" and "Truck Stop Girl" alone).

It's their worst 60s album by a country mile

this is the only Byrds i own post-Sweethearts, but i dig it. gonna be on the look out for some of the proper records

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/59077407/The+Best+Of+The+Byrds+Greatest+Hits++Volume+Ii.jpg

such epic facial hair. feel like we could do a byrds vs. band facial hair poll.
http://appleseedsmusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/url.jpeg

aw
http://mydadwasinaband.com/my-dad-was-in-the-byrds/

This thread inspired me to revisit my love of Gene Parsons. I wrote a little something about him and made a mix of just his songs—which doesn't function as a very "Byrdsian" mix but it is a nice ad-hoc Gene Parsons album.

I think the later Byrds records are pretty good. They seemed to have quite a few good songs and tracks that didn't end up on the albums, which leads me to think with a better edit they would have been improved.

I also wonder if this later group would have just changed their name, perhaps being taken for what it was and not what it was not - it would have had a bigger profile. Even with McGuinn around, the group had a different sound. They definitely was ahead of the curve on the getting it back to roots rock. Some tunes have the 70s L.A. rock pop sound down. Got to say I think not keeping all the talent in one basket with Parsons and Hillman going to do the Flying Burrito Brothers. If those tunes could have happened in an almalgam band, this 'byrds' might have been that country rock Stones huge hit instead of interesting back catalog records of that time.

yeah, this rules

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLTMu6uaqHI

This version of the Byrds had a cool sound definitely a bit of ahead of the popular curve, as this type of country rock got so big. There are some good songs and some great covers, but they just were not able to come up with singles to get on the radio. Maybe not for harmony vocals, but I'd have to think this was the best live band of their various lineups.

Considering where they were all at musically, I think you can play fantasy league rock and roll and wonder what it would have been like if this version of the Byrds hooked up with John Fogarty as CCR was falling apart. I think sound wise and style, they would have been an awesome musical group to fit with Fogarty's songs. Never would have happened for a million reasons, but sonically it would have been a really good match.

Listening to live audience tapes from the late 60s (pretty good sound quality): McGuinn and the other guys are riding White's coattails, and he's not showboating. Just by projecting the kind/amount of stylish clarity and self-assurance that would be a given in other settings, he stands way out. McG. often sounds a little hoarse, kinda lonely (dutiful harmonies, only when absolutely required,to kinda sorta approximate expected sound of the hits). But I would go back to hear Clarence.

Yeah, been listening to this stuff this week and for me it’s almost all about Clarence. Roger is a given, can’t decide about Gene and, as far as Skip goes, if you like loud buzzy bass, Jack Bruce he ain’t.

Skip's no Jack Bruce in the songwriting department either.

Amazed untitled did so poor. To me that's the one time this lineup fires on all cylinders...even the Battin song is good, long, and weird!

Agreed. That’s probably the one I would have voted for.

I like Gene Parsons during this era. His voice is very un-Byrdian but I like his songs.

Yes, good drummer too.

Wonder if this vintage video will sway any Skip skeptics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kizVrrI7EEU

This one's for you, Ralph...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBzyosxDKzY

I was surprised that Ralph - who went on to host a long-running talk show - actually made amends with McGuinn when he had him on as a guest.

And yes, they talk about THAT song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iq_6vRtJDQ

Ah, he just died! Didn't know that until a second ago.

Wow! That was great, thanks. RIP. Yeah, I didn't know either, same.

Oh, it was in the middle of Busy Day post on the Obit thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM1FxU9I9YA
#onethread

This tweet cuts right to the chase:

Rest In peace to the great Ronnie Spector, a true icon with an unforgettable voice.

Richard appeared alongside Ronnie Spector in a song called “You And Me Go Way Back,” written by John Sebastian and featured in a 1986 television show. pic.twitter.com/7AudA0JfHR

— The Richard Manuel Archive (@manuelarchive) January 12, 2022

https://variety.com/2022/music/news/ralph-emery-byrds-feud-roger-mcguinn-gram-parsons-opry-truck-drivin-man-1235155505/

Good background, thanks.

What, McGuinn died?!

Was about to post this response to Tyler's query about Dr. Byrds, never the most obvious choice for poll-winner---I've never heard it, but xgau put it in 1969 Byrds-historical context"

A recent poster depicts McGuinn and the three new Byrds, all recruited from Los Angeles studios, standing in a horse pasture wearing cowboy hats. On the dry grass in front of them is a pile of what appears to be astronauts' equipment. The image sums up the Byrds'--really McGuinn's--unique articulation of "folk-rock," combining fondness for the rural past and fascination with the technological future. The two frontiers.

The original Byrds made many things possible. Their hit version of Bob Dylan's "Mr. Tambourine Man" early in 1965 opened the way to AM radio not only for Dylan but for all the young song-poets. The careful electronic counterpoint of their guitar ensemble was expanded (with inspiration from avant-garde jazz) into what McGuinn calls "space music," the basic rock feedback-volume experiment. And their roots in bluegrass and commercial folk made their trend-signalling turn to country and western last year a natural one.

The group's eighth and latest album, Dr. Byrds and Mr. Hyde (Columbia CS 9755), which is already off the charts although it appeared just a few months ago, combines all these elements, so much so that it appears a hodgepodge when compared to the conceptual sureness of 1968's Notorious Byrd Brothers (a smooth-flowing post-Pepper studio album) and Sweetheart of the Rodeo (a bittersweet tribute to country music).

Dr. Byrds and Mr. Hyde includes two compositions from the motion picture Candy, a reworking of the folk tune "Old Blue," country songs written with Gram Parsons, Dylan's "This Wheel's on Fire," and a medley of "My Back Pages," "Baby, What You Want Me to Do," and the break song with which the group closes its club sets. Although the material is a little thinner than usual, it is not really confused: the record functions as a token of McGuinn's unfaltering love for his entire musical past--folk, rock, space, country and live performance.

Dr. Byrds and Mr. Hyde is first-rate Byrds, a high recommendation. The excitement generated is no longer exquisite, I suppose, but it lasts. Its major fault has plagued the group ever since the personnel changes began two-and-a-half years ago, when Gene Clark left because he was afraid of airplanes: a lack of strong voices to harmonize behind McGuinn's studiously unpolished lead. Its virtue is typical of the Byrds, who are in turn typical of Los Angeles commercial rock: a kind of ironic pressure produced by the tension between the no-nonsense constrictions of AM radio and the breakaway energy essential to rock's popularity. No matter how tightly a Byrd song is produced, its beat, its phrased guitars, and its uncitified harmonies all imply an insurrectionary human energy that transcends technics.
From "The Byrds Have Flown, But Not Far":
https://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/news/byrds-69.php

Ralph Emery died.

yeah, was hoping yall meant Ralph Emery, who I knew about
---Not seeing McG. in news, but Hillman having health problems: https://www.cltampa.com/music/the-byrds-chris-hillman-cancels-second-consecutive-clearwater-concert-12575269

ever since the personnel changes began two-and-a-half years ago, when Gene Clark left because he was afraid of airplanes:

yeah, was hoping yall meant Ralph Emery, who I knew about
---Not seeing McG. in news, but Hillman having health problems: https://www.cltampa.com/music/the-byrds-chris-hillman-cancels-second-consecutive-clearwater-concert-12575269🕸🕸

What's a good track to change my mind about Clarence White? His technical skills are obvious but I've never heard him on a track that's really moved me. It probably doesn't help that I find Roger McGuinn's voice really unpalatable when he's not surrounded by harmonies from the original Byrds.

No one answered this yet? I sort of started to come around, but yeah I know what you are saying. I've started to listen to that stuff in recent years but still couldn't tell you any particulars.

I probably posted this upthread years ago but I made a slightly re-jiggered version of Ballad of Easy Rider (replacing a couple of album tracks with alt/bonus tracks that appear on the expanded version). This custom version, to me, is by far the best post-Sweetheart Byrds album. I replaced the execrable "Jack Tarr" with the bonus track "Mae Jean Goes to Hollywood" and deleted "Armstrong, Aldrin, Collins" altogether. And I swapped out the versions of Oil in My Lamp and Tulsa County as the alternates are superior.

1. Ballad of Easy Rider
2. Fido
3. Oil in My Lamp (alternate version)
4. Tulsa County (alternate version)
5. Mae Jean Goes to Hollywood
6. Jesus is Just Alright
7. It's All Over Now, Baby Blue (alternate mix)
8. There Must Be Someone I Can Turn To
9. Gunga Din
10. Way Behind the Sun
11. Deportee (Plane Wreck at Los Gatos)

it got zero votes in this poll, but I've listened to Live at the Fillmore - February 1969 more than any of the White-era studio albums

xp I also replaced "Jack Tarr" with "Mae Jean," and I also prefer the alternate of "Oil in My Lamp." I don't remember the other alternates, but will definitely check them out.

I'm somewhat hesitant to call it a great album, but it's one I really enjoy, the only really good one they did after Sweetheart IMHO. (Untitled doesn't do much for me.)

Thanks for the playlists! You could also make a pretty decent comp from solo albums, with maybe a few things from the McGuinn Clark Hillman album ("Don't You Write Her Off"!), plus some of that trio's live sets posted here and there. Also, thee original Preflyte was pretty good, then Sundazed did a 2-CD version, and Floating World re-reissued all that with even more, though by then you're getting into demos of familiar finished product: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preflyte (Also, some of it's Croz solo demos from before he teamed up with C. and McG. as the Jet Set, but all of the same era, same studio, World Pacific, and supervised by future Byrds producer Jim Dickson)
Some of the Sundazed and Floating World adds are on Rhino's In The Beginning, but also that's got a lot of alt takes, seems like it's mostly for seeing how they got to the classic sound, like one of those Beatles slogs.
(Why didn't the young Byrds release McGuinn-Clark's "You Showed Me" as a single?? Big hit for the Turtles.)
I've never heard the "reunion" album, Byrds, attributed to the original five individually, but have heard that it's a bummer, man.
Otherwise, Clark was just on the first two albums and a few 5-D tracks, right? At least one of their strongest singers and def. their strongest writer (before Parsons, but I don't remember how much of his original material they recorded).

Otherwise, Clark was just on the first two albums and a few 5-D tracks, right? At least one of their strongest singers and def. their strongest writer (before Parsons, but I don't remember how much of his original material they recorded).

Correct. He's got songwriting credits on about half of the debut and a good chunk of the second album. And I hope you've heard his solo albums and the Dillard & Clark stuff which is right up there. The first Dillard & Clark album is extremely excellent.

I probably posted this upthread years ago but I made a slightly re-jiggered version of Ballad of Easy Rider (replacing a couple of album tracks with alt/bonus tracks that appear on the expanded version). This custom version, to me, is by far the best post-Sweetheart Byrds album. I replaced the execrable "Jack Tarr" with the bonus track "Mae Jean Goes to Hollywood" and deleted "Armstrong, Aldrin, Collins" altogether. And I swapped out the versions of Oil in My Lamp and Tulsa County as the alternates are superior. [EDIT:

I tried this - good call on those alternates. The alternate version of "Oil in My Lamp" is pretty enjoyable and shores up the folkier side of the album while the master version feels pretty leaden and heavy-handed in comparison. The alternate "Tulsa County" sounds like it's the same take but with York's vocals instead of McGuinn's, and I actually prefer York's. "Mae Jean" is much better than "Jack Tarr" (which is indeed execrable).

I wasn't sold on "Way Beyond the Sun" though - I think leaving it off was the right call.

I can't argue with omitting "Armstrong, Aldrin, Collins." For some reason, the Byrds' albums have a long tradition of closing their albums with a novelty - more like a post-script than a final chapter. Their best and worst final tracks were kind of exceptions to the rule: the great "Nothing Was Delivered" on Sweetheart (perhaps under Gram's urging) and an inferior remake of "Why" on Younger Than Yesterday. I wasn't too bothered by "Armstrong, Aldrin, Collins" because it seemed to fit in that tradition and it was a nice time capsule for an album that coincided with the moon landing. But the story in "Deportee" is a pretty damning and devastating statement - having that linger on your mind would have been a great way to end the album, but having that novelty come right after it diminishes its effect.

the Byrds' albums have a long tradition of closing their albums with a novelty

I don't object to "Space Odyssey", at least they're trying for a big finish.

I probably posted this upthread years ago but I made a slightly re-jiggered version of Ballad of Easy Rider (replacing a couple of album tracks with alt/bonus tracks that appear on the expanded version). This custom version, to me, is by far the best post-Sweetheart Byrds album. I replaced the execrable "Jack Tarr" with the bonus track "Mae Jean Goes to Hollywood" and deleted "Armstrong, Aldrin, Collins" altogether. And I swapped out the versions of Oil in My Lamp and Tulsa County as the alternates are superior. [EDIT:

I tried this - good call on those alternates. The alternate version of "Oil in My Lamp" is pretty enjoyable and shores up the folkier side of the album while the master version feels pretty leaden and heavy-handed in comparison. The alternate "Tulsa County" sounds like it's the same take but with York's vocals instead of McGuinn's, and I actually prefer York's. "Mae Jean" is much better than "Jack Tarr" (which is indeed execrable).

I wasn't sold on "Way Beyond the Sun" though - I think leaving it off was the right call.

I can't argue with omitting "Armstrong, Aldrin, Collins." For some reason, the Byrds' albums have a long tradition of closing their albums with a novelty - more like a post-script than a final chapter. Their best and worst final tracks were kind of exceptions to the rule: the great "Nothing Was Delivered" on Sweetheart (perhaps under Gram's urging) and an inferior remake of "Why" on Younger Than Yesterday. I wasn't too bothered by "Armstrong, Aldrin, Collins" because it seemed to fit in that tradition and it was a nice time capsule for an album that coincided with the moon landing. But the story in "Deportee" is a pretty damning and devastating statement - having that linger on your mind would have been a great way to end the album, but having that novelty come right after it diminishes its effect.

― birdistheword, Monday, January 31, 2022 bookmarkflaglink

Hey, glad someone actually tried this out!

I'm sure some are in the know but some others who like this period of Byrds might not realize that Clarence White's original 'b-bender' guitar ended up with Marty Stuart, who plays the guitar quite a bit with his band The Fabulous Superlatives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8H08Xs_w8A

If you don't know about Marty Stuart but like this type of country rock music, you definitely should check out some of his recordings with that band. They did a TV show on the RFD network backing up quite a few classic artists including a great session with Roger McGuinn and Chris Hillman. That episode also has a section about the B-Bender guitar too. The Fabulous Superlavtives also have an excellent record called "Way Out West" that is a tribute to the various California country styles of that era (produced by Mike Campbell of Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers), which you may also dig.

Yes, I've watched that before also the video where Gene Parsons shows how he developed the guitar.

https://www.guitarplayer.com/gear/watch-clarence-white-demonstrate-his-innovative-b-bender-telecaster-in-1968?