oh another distinguishing thing that occurs to me is that in JuJu you often hear a heavy presence of pitch-alterable "talking drums" because of the Yoruba influence. I don't think you hear that so much in highlife.
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 14:08 (ten years ago) link
For example, if you listen to Sunny Ade or Ebeneezer Obey, two of the biggest juju artists:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7vZ5yzYboAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YANSNL6bp7Yyou hear what I'm talking about -- languid tempos, spaciousness, talking drum, lots of interplay between percussion and guitar, still a noticeable rumba influence, but almost more of a spiritual than a dance music feel
Whereas highlife music:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xyTYDNdTz8
horns, more uptempo, more dancy, tighter, rumba influence is more obvious, etc.
But both juju and highlife have gone through many stylistic changes and permutations over the years so it's hard to simplify. I mean what's the difference between funk, rock, R&B and blues? There's funky rock, and rocky blues, and funky R&B, and bluesy funk, etc., but you still probably have a sense that in a general sense there are some loose parameters.a
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 14:15 (ten years ago) link
Extremely helpful, thanks everyone (especially Hurting - those Youtube clips were something of a revelation. I always see King Sunny's albums cheap but never pick 'em up). And I agree with this -
I get the impression that a lot of the afropop/afrorock compilations that have come out in the last decade blur distinctions or pay no attention to them.
- which makes parsing this stuff even more difficult.
― Jimmywine Dyspeptic, Wednesday, 5 June 2013 19:14 (ten years ago) link
Yeah I find it to be an annoying drawback to stuff like the Soundway comps -- great music, but not much respect for the music. They present it like it's all part of some Old Weird Africa.
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 19:19 (ten years ago) link
my impression is that these genres terms are somewhat unstable in the original context too
― Mordy , Wednesday, 5 June 2013 19:19 (ten years ago) link
no moreso than other genre terms I don't think
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 19:22 (ten years ago) link
I find myself wishing the songs on those Nigeria Special and Ghana Special comps had less vocals. To my Western ears, a lot of the chanty call-and-response stuff starts to sound tediously similar. How are the Nigeria 70 comps?
― Jimmywine Dyspeptic, Wednesday, 5 June 2013 20:04 (ten years ago) link
I like the Nigeria 70 comps better than the Soundway comps
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 20:06 (ten years ago) link
not for a particular reason, I just think those guys choose better tracks
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 20:08 (ten years ago) link
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Wednesday, June 5, 2013 2:19 PM (57 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
90% of that stuff is post-1960s and palm wine stuff has it roots much earlier and indeed s.e. rogie probably would have been considered to have an "old-fashioned" repertoire when he was recording in the 60s and 70s
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 20:17 (ten years ago) link
oh I know, I didn't mean Old Weird Africa in time period, I more mean that it all becomes this single, vague, exoticized place with a BIZARRO version of rock and funk.
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 20:20 (ten years ago) link
i'm not sure you can levy that accusation what with all the detailed liner notes and stuff
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 20:21 (ten years ago) link
but it does strike me that all the interest in post-rock african music hasn't really excited that much interest in earlier genres.... or so it seems....
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 20:22 (ten years ago) link
i think a lot of the older stuff isn't as available as the 70s music. Waterman mentions a bunch of recordings that he says he couldn't locate --
The earliest recordings known to me of Yoruba songs with guitar accompaniment were made in England in the late 1920s by the Zonophone Company. The Catalogue of Zonophone West African Records by Native Artists, published in Hayes, Middlesex in 1929, includes a number of songs in Yoruba with guitar and tambourine accompaniment, performed by Domingo Justus. None of my older informants mentioned Justus, and I haev no been able to locate any of these discs for analysis. The first recordigns of palmwine music with guitar accompaniment made in Lagos, performed by Irewolede Denge and Dickson Oludaiye, were part of the Odeon series previously mentioned. The masters of these recordings were likely kept in Germany and lost during the Second World War, and I have not managed to find any of the discs.
I'd love to hear some more palmwine recordings than the few that have been reissued. Maybe there's an archive we could get access to somewhere? Actually, I was hunting around for these discs recently: http://www.afrodisc.com/parlophone_po_500_599.79.html but I can't figure out who has them.
― Mordy , Wednesday, 5 June 2013 20:39 (ten years ago) link
here's a motherload of west african music in various genres, albeit only some that might be categorized as "palm-wine guitar music": http://sounds.bl.uk/World-and-traditional-music/Decca-West-African-recordings
i actually managed to download the 100s of tracks in this collection and converted them to MP3s. i could try to share but it's like 10 GB.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 20:49 (ten years ago) link
oh man that;s beautiful thank you thank you
― sleepish resistance (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 20:50 (ten years ago) link
I always see King Sunny's albums cheap but never pick 'em up
Oh man, most anything pre 1985 or so from Sunny is awesome
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 20:53 (ten years ago) link
i think the british library's "sounds" site is kind of underutilized in general, maybe because everything is streaming as opposed to easily downloadable, and it's not as user-friendly as it could be. but it's an amazing resource.
i mean check out http://sounds.bl.uk/World-and-traditional-music/Ethnographic-wax-cylinders
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 20:53 (ten years ago) link
i'm sure i've been to the sounds site before and then forgot it existed
― sleepish resistance (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 20:54 (ten years ago) link
http://sounds.bl.uk/World-and-traditional-music/Decca-West-African-recordings/025M-1CS0043769XX-0200V0
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 20:55 (ten years ago) link
(listen to that one!)
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 20:56 (ten years ago) link
(or this one)
http://sounds.bl.uk/World-and-traditional-music/Decca-West-African-recordings/025M-1CS0089424XX-0200V0
So much stuff! Hard to keep track of it all. Anyway, just bought that Waterman book, which will likely only increase my list of things to check out. Thanks, gang.
― Jimmywine Dyspeptic, Wednesday, 5 June 2013 20:59 (ten years ago) link
yeah I read that Waterman book in college, which is a long time ago now and I don't remember much of it. but liked it at the time.
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 21:05 (ten years ago) link
i thought that jollof rice song sounded familiar so i searched it on spotify/my local library -- it turns out i didn't have a copy of it, but searching it brought up this album which is apparently really new and has a jollof rice track on it?! http://www.mvulamandondo.com/album/ambush/
― Mordy , Wednesday, 5 June 2013 22:18 (ten years ago) link
like really new = a few days old i think
― Mordy , Wednesday, 5 June 2013 22:20 (ten years ago) link
this is the same tracklisting as the Palm Wine Guitar Music comp but i'm hoping the vol 1 means we can expect a vol 2
http://www.amazon.com/Sounds-Rogie-Limited-Edition-Vinyl/dp/B00CIOG4BA
― Mordy , Tuesday, 23 July 2013 02:27 (ten years ago) link
Just came looking for a thread on SE Rogie after finding The Sounds of SE Rogie on LP this weekend. Initial thoughts were Rogie = African Hank Williams but it's a very simplistic analogy. Enjoying this with the windows open and a warm breeze flowing through the house.
― brotherlovesdub, Tuesday, 23 July 2013 03:54 (ten years ago) link
http://i2.wp.com/ameyawdebrah.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/paper-front.jpg?resize=620%2C620
― Mordy, Sunday, 15 January 2017 23:00 (seven years ago) link
somehow missed this came out last year
You know what's a good album ? Seven Degrees North (2000) by King Sunny Adé.
I tried (bottled) palm wine two weeks ago. It was light, sweetish, slightly tart, not bad but not something I'd trade a beer for.
― Nabozo, Thursday, 17 November 2022 09:26 (one year ago) link