Let me be clear: I don't believe that previously non-Jihad mosque members are going to take to the streets in a terror mob after hearing one anti-Western sermon. That's an absurd and insulting mischaracterization. But I do believe that Islam's current permissiveness around cavalier, cruel, victim-targeting fundamentalist theologies contributes to (that's contributes—not causes) a culture of young men who don't understand what it means to take this stuff seriously.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 4 June 2013 21:57 (ten years ago) link
so "the West" is an analogous victim to "women"...
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 21:59 (ten years ago) link
Good move derailing the sexism thread to your pet topic, Mordy, should go well, A+++++ would read again.
― hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:01 (ten years ago) link
It's not a derail. I'm questioning a prevalent assumption of how 'cultures' work.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:02 (ten years ago) link
can you make your "questioning" a little more direct and less muddled please?
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:03 (ten years ago) link
i don't believe there is any connection between jim norton or anthony jeselnik making jokes about rape and its occurrence in the population.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:04 (ten years ago) link
I don't believe there is any connection between UK newspapers publishing anti-Semitic cartoons and its occurrence in the population.
― hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:05 (ten years ago) link
Also nobody is claiming a connection between rape jokes and the prevalence of rape anyway so
― hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:06 (ten years ago) link
isn't that the essential claim of the 'rape culture' argument that west is making?
― Mordy , Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:07 (ten years ago) link
Let me be clear: I don't believe that previously non-raping audience members are going to take to the streets in a rape mob after hearing one rape joke. That's an absurd and insulting mischaracterization. But I do believe that comedy's current permissiveness around cavalier, cruel, victim-targeting rape jokes contributes to (that's contributes—not causes) a culture of young men who don't understand what it means to take this stuff seriously.
I'm not saying. I'm just saying.
I don't see where in that paragraph it says "which leads to an x% increase in the number of rapes"
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:08 (ten years ago) link
Yeah that's not at all the claim she's making.
― hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:10 (ten years ago) link
Essential or otherwise.
even if that's an argument you believe in mordy, you do understand you're defending the guys telling rape jokes for money right?
― i didn't even give much of a fuck that you were mod (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:13 (ten years ago) link
He's well aware.
― ...also i'm awesome (Nicole), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:14 (ten years ago) link
Also, while it's conceivable, I suppose, that there could be a rape joke that doesn't actually express hostility toward women, most rape jokes seem to do so in practice. It's sort of like how if a comedian makes a joke about black people that portrays them as hateful and subhuman, the defense that it's "just a joke" doesn't really pass muster, because the "joke" expresses a real, hostile feeling about black people.
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:17 (ten years ago) link
Like some jokes, in spite of being jokes, sort of require the audience to agree on a certain pretext in order to see the "humor," e.g. that black people are an unwelcome presence, or that women deserve punishment (if not literal rape) for behaving in a way that seems above their station in life.
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:19 (ten years ago) link
louis and carlin have pulled it off but yeah, it's not like a red badge of courage or something. and the comedy central kids being discussed here don't manage to pull this shit off with any panache period
― i didn't even give much of a fuck that you were mod (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:19 (ten years ago) link
I don't think there's an across-the-board rule re: rape as subject matter. as Oscar Wilde might say, there are good/funny/well-constructed jokes about rape and there are bad/unfunny/poorly-constructed jokes about rape and that is all. Jokes where an innocent victim is the punchline are, generally speaking, not funny, and I think West is OTM about how they function in relation to the larger culture.
― Mr. Scarf Ace is Back (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:22 (ten years ago) link
I think a good rule of thumb for "funny" rape jokes might be to ask yourself "Am I Louis C.K.?"
If the answer is no, better not to attempt.
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:23 (ten years ago) link
louis has done rape jokes as bad as anyone else
― ty based gay dead computer god (zachlyon), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:24 (ten years ago) link
fair enough -- I haven't even heard them, was just assuming they would be better
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:24 (ten years ago) link
and god nothing in the world is more deserving of eye-rolls than boys club comedians talking about the "purity" of comedy and shit, barf barf barf
― ty based gay dead computer god (zachlyon), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:25 (ten years ago) link
the only good rape joke(s) I can recall are Rodney Dangerfield's and the Kids in the Hall's "Hitler Boinks a Donkey" (the latter not really relevant perhaps)
― Mr. Scarf Ace is Back (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:26 (ten years ago) link
The purity of some of the biggest losers on earth expressing their anger at women in front of an audience
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:29 (ten years ago) link
ugh at the screencaptured commentsugh at humanityugh
― susuwatari teenage riot (a passing spacecadet), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:31 (ten years ago) link
i thought that lindy west's previous piece on this stuff was v. well put together plus extremely funny: http://jezebel.com/5925186/how-to-make-a-rape-joke
it also articulates where she's coming from better than the later piece, which is not on what she said/thinks about these sorts of jokes so much as the horrifying response she's gotten for saying/thinking such stuff. (which response, in turn, would be justified by those making it as 'jokes, bro'.)
― stefon taylor swiftboat (s.clover), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 13:59 (ten years ago) link
I was just going to post this similar piece. Like K@73 H@rd1ng says, I think it's not that all jokes involving rape are verboten, it's that you should consider who is the butt of the joke.
I especially like this
10. Dane Cook, you guys. Dane Motherfucking Cook can construct a funny rape joke. This means no one else, anywhere, ever, has an excuse to screw this up.
― Je55e, Wednesday, 5 June 2013 14:17 (ten years ago) link
Which newspaper was this?
― Bees Against Racism (Tom D.), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 14:19 (ten years ago) link
wow, fuck daniel tosh
in fact
I
Hope
He
Gets
R
A
P
D
L
Y
B
O
E
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 14:22 (ten years ago) link
xp the Sunday Times. Start here and read down.
― hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 14:25 (ten years ago) link
But it's OK because it has no effect on the culture.
― hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 14:26 (ten years ago) link
That's the right wing Rupert Murdoch owned press for you
― Bees Against Racism (Tom D.), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 14:28 (ten years ago) link
/I don't believe there is any connection between UK newspapers publishing anti-Semitic cartoons and its occurrence in the population./Which newspaper was this?
Steve bell had one this year iirc?
― caek, Wednesday, 5 June 2013 17:19 (ten years ago) link
To call Steve Bell evil implies a clarity of purpose I do not want to attribute to anyone involved.
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 5 June 2013 17:21 (ten years ago) link
This story has me absolutely livid with rage. It's everything wrong with Texas, gun culture, misogyny, the dangers of sex work and a dozen other things all in one handy package.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Jury-acquits-escort-shooter-4581027.php
― hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:10 (ten years ago) link
What the fuck?! That's astonishing.
― хуто-хуторянка (ShariVari), Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:18 (ten years ago) link
wtf
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:19 (ten years ago) link
ugh, that story makes me feel physically sick.
― Treeship, Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:20 (ten years ago) link
one hundred and fifty dollars is justification for taking her LIFE?
get the fuck outta here
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:20 (ten years ago) link
even if it's a million dollars, what. the. fuck. money is an abstraction, it's not real the way human lives are real. obviously the jury didn't give a shit about this poor woman because she was a prostitute. fuck america.
― Treeship, Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:21 (ten years ago) link
There must be scope for appeal, surely? I can't imagine there is any other country in the world with a legal code where you could walk away from doing that.
― хуто-хуторянка (ShariVari), Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:22 (ten years ago) link
http://completeoutrageredux.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/bugs.gif
Do Texas next, Bugs!
― polyphonic, Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:22 (ten years ago) link
that still won't help the people who are forced to live there.
― Treeship, Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:23 (ten years ago) link
I read about this this morning and I remain perplexed that the jury would accept that he was recovering his 'property' when his misunderstanding about the escort's services would nonetheless have been illegal.
― Lectures of Pelé (Michael White), Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:26 (ten years ago) link
I would love to see the transcript of this trial. Was it ever addressed that this murdering fuck, if he was genuinely trying to buy sex, was engaged in a crime? And that killing someone during the commission of a crime (or causing injuries to which they later succumb) is in fact a felony?
― hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:26 (ten years ago) link
xp
i assume we are going to hear more about this case. no way this doesn't become a national story.
― Treeship, Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:28 (ten years ago) link
my wife was telling me about this! wtf bexar county sheeeeeit
― one if by lamp, two if by deeznuts (m bison), Friday, 7 June 2013 02:28 (ten years ago) link
Someone on jez pointed out that this woman was in fact killed for NOT providing sex for money. So basically for acting according to law.
― lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Friday, 7 June 2013 02:38 (ten years ago) link